ST09's Kobayashi Maru Test

[ConRefit79]

I went back and re-watched the first 2 nuTrek films. And I recall enjoying Star Trek 2009 when it debuted. It was fun and quite a spectacle. Some things irked me, like some of their choice of set designs and the JJPrise. But the actual story and characters were fun and interesting. One thing that didn't bother me on the initial viewing but does now is the Kobayashi maru test. I guess I always expected Kirk to be more determined to beat the test and take it seriously. But the way it is depicted in this film, it was like a game to him. I know it's only a movie, but you want something like this that was so serious when we first hear about it to be handled right. But it was like watching a frat boy pull a prank.

 

[UssGlenn]

I get what you are saying but keep in mind we never saw Kirk's first 2 attempts. By the third attempt he'd figured out he had to cheat and made it blindingly obvious deliberately.

 

[Kor]

Yes, after he realized the whole thing was an unwinnable joke, he decided to stick it to the man.

Kor

 

[Smellmet]

I also think he pulls the biggest Shatner impression in this scene in all the three films. So I love it.

 

[ConRefit79]

he decided to stick it to the man.

Funny I was going to say the same thing.

he pulls the biggest Shatner impression in this scene in all the three films.

I'll have to watch the scene again to see what you're referring to.

 

[Smellmet]

Funny I was going to say the same thing.



I'll have to watch the scene again to see what you're referring to.

Just his general body language and mannerisms, he seemed to be channeling the shat in this scene for me - plus the fact he's eating an apple 'I don't like to lose' and all that...

 

[UssGlenn]

My take on it is that by not hiding the fact that he had messed with the test he avoids any violation of the schools honor code. Obviously he needs to convince the board of that. If the rules, which I assume are very basic, state something like "attempt to win by any means necessary", and he immediately tells them exactly what he did to win, then he's got his commendation for original thinking in the original timeline, would have in the new one as well if not for the emergency.

 

[Noname Given]

My take on it is that by not hiding the fact that he had messed with the test he avoids any violation of the schools honor code. Obviously he needs to convince the board of that. If the rules, which I assume are very basic, state something like "attempt to win by any means necessary", and he immediately tells them exactly what he did to win, then he's got his commendation for original thinking in the original timeline, would have in the new one as well if not for the emergency.

I agree with this and I do think the exact same thing happened in the 'Prime' universe. Kirk WANTED to (or knew he'd) get caught .IE He knew full well that once he 'won' the programmers would know something either glitched majorly or was tampered with - and he wanted to confront the notion that there is a 'no win scenario'. As the character stated in TWoK: "I don't believe in the 'no win' scenario' ".

If anything the interruption of that scene in ST09 where Kirk is challenging BOTH the Academy board (and Spock) on the test was disappointing because I had a feeling we would have seen just HOW he got the 'commendation for original thinking'.

 

[locutus101]

I too think that they didn't make the best of that scene in ST09. There is missed opportunity there.

 

[Mudd]

If Kirk cheated on the test in order to make a point about it to his superiors, then perhaps he's a maverick and an original thinker and deserves some credit for challenging the system.

For that to happen, he has to do it in such a way that he'll "get caught."

If, on the other hand, Kirk cheated on the test simply in order to get a good score and go down in history as the first to beat it, then he's just a lying cheating scumbag and ought to be thrown out of the service.

For that to happen, he has to do it in such a way that he thinks he won't get caught.

Which do you prefer? I'm in favor of the first option, which is consistent with his behavior in ST2009.

 

[The Wormhole]

I hated the way Trek XI depicted Kirk making it blatantly obvious he rigged the test. That is the literal definition of "raped childhood."

 

[ConRefit79]

I always figured they would know he cheated because the test wouldn't allow him any way to win. If he disabled or destroyed the first wave another would show up. That kind of thing. And he would be all business during the test. They would know he cheated because it shouldn't be possible to beat it.

 

[The Wormhole]

I always figured they would know he cheated because the test wouldn't allow him any way to win. If he disabled or destroyed the first wave another would show up. That kind of thing. And he would be all business during the test. They would know he cheated because it shouldn't be possible to beat it.

Exactly, the test is unbeatable, so all it would take is him winning to prove he cheated. He need not act like an in your face ass, but then Trek XI didn't do the subtle approach at all, did it?

 

[Ovation]

I always figured they would know he cheated because the test wouldn't allow him any way to win. If he disabled or destroyed the first wave another would show up. That kind of thing. And he would be all business during the test. They would know he cheated because it shouldn't be possible to beat it.

That way would hardly show the contempt in which Kirk holds the no-win scenario in either timeline. The way 09 showed it was perfect.

 

[UssGlenn]

I always figured they would know he cheated because the test wouldn't allow him any way to win. If he disabled or destroyed the first wave another would show up. That kind of thing. And he would be all business during the test. They would know he cheated because it shouldn't be possible to beat it.

Exactly, the test is unbeatable, so all it would take is him winning to prove he cheated. He need not act like an in your face ass, but then Trek XI didn't do the subtle approach at all, did it?

The thing is, if the Academy board in any way thinks he's trying to make it look like he didn't cheat (like acting like nothing is different during the simulation), then he's toast and is expelled for cheating. Only by making it blindingly obvious that he's not hiding what he did does he survive.

 

[ConRefit79]

He could always admit it right after winning the test. Sir, I don't believe in the no win scenario. I tried your way twice, so I changed the conditions of the test.

 

[The Wormhole]

The thing is, if the Academy board in any way thinks he's trying to make it look like he didn't cheat (like acting like nothing is different during the simulation), then he's toast and is expelled for cheating.

Considering he's still cheating either way, why does it matter how he acted? Keep in mind, in TWOK they establish no one had ever messed with the Kobayashi Maru test before. The fact Kirk had the balls to do so earned him a commendation for original thinking. I doubt it would make a difference had he acted serious or not.

 

[UssGlenn]

He's not cheating if the board exonerates him of that charge. As I mentioned earlier the exact wording of the challenge may be important, as is the fact that they aren't actually testing your ability to rescue a ship. It's a test of character, therefore any response is valid. The trick is to make the Academy board realize that, and that is much easier if they realize what Kirk did on their own, rather than him telling them after they already think he's trying to put one over on them. In my opinion making the reprogramming blatant is the key to his entire defense.

 

[locutus101]

I think his cheating was too obvious to be missed, even he must have realized that when he made the changes.

 

[Tuskin38]

Just his general body language and mannerisms, he seemed to be channeling the shat in this scene for me - plus the fact he's eating an apple 'I don't like to lose' and all that...

the apple part was just a coincidence according to either JJ or one writers.

it wasnt a reference to WOK