ST09 - 5 years

[BillJ]

True, Kirk damns himself later, but he generally tended to blame himself when he lost crewmen. Should he have been more prudent? In this case, yes. But Kirk didn't get to where he was by being overly cautious. He's a by-the-book kind of guy, but also a he's also humanist/altruist who is willing to take risks. We don't know that he broke any rules here, but we do get the sense our hero's intuitive guesses can't all be right.

But he has absolutely no reason to not be cautious here. False orders in his name, jammed communications then Regula One going silent plus the ship attached to the project refusing to respond to hails. That is about 2+2=4 as it gets.

Kirk has to act very unKirk like in order for the story to move forward.

 

[YARN]

But he has absolutely no reason to not be cautious here. False orders in his name, jammed communications then Regula One going silent plus the ship attached to the project refusing to respond to hails. That is about 2+2=4 as it gets.

Kirk has to act very unKirk like in order for the story to move forward.

Again, I didn't say that Kirk was trying to do something strategic by not raising shields. It's not so much that he has reason NOT to be cautious here, as he does not have reason to be overly suspicious either. Compare Enterprise's approach to Reliant with Enterprise's approach to Defiant in The Tholian Web:

The Defiant went missing without a trace in unsurveyed territory where space is tearing itself up. Then the Defiant appears visually, even though she does not read on sensors. No response to repeated hails. No call by Kirk for red alert or yellow alert or raising of shields. Kirk simply beams over. If this had been a trap (e.g., a holographic projection of the starship), the Enterprise would've been in trouble. Nothing goes wrong, however, so we never think anything of it. No apparent math problems here.

NOTE: We don't know that Kirk knew that Reliant was the ship assigned to Project Genesis. Kirk didn't even know what Genesis was until Dr. Marcus sends him the message. They're still discussing what Genesis means when Reliant shows up.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

It's really to bring Kirk down so that we can see him come back up, rather than just throwing him under a bus. What makes it work for me is that Kirk acknowledges this and damns himself for it. Even when Sulu tries to give him a compliment for coming up with that prefix code, Kirk throws it right back "I did nothing!". He may have gotten them out of the pit, but he's fully aware he put himself in it in the first place. If Kirk's error was never addressed after the attack, I would understand why many would have such a big problem with it. There's at least a point to it.

I agree that Kirk's response is definitely Kirk-like and true to the character that we know. Regardless, his blunder is pretty big given Saavik's advice and how long it takes for the Enterprise's shields to be fully raised. There is no downside to raising shields in advance given the suspicious circumstance. This is literally the root cause for the eventual destruction of the original Enterprise.

EDIT: As YARN points out above, Saavik is actually cut off before she finishes... so my bad. It's implied that the regulation was for them to raise shields, since Kirk basically tries to do the same thing (just much too late), and he commends Saavik afterward... but it's ultimately up for interpretation.

Then there's nuKirk. I never get the sense that he truly learns from mistakes or is even aware of them in ST09. In the end he gets on top thanks to sheer luck, or what others might call "destiny". This is why I put STID ahead of it, because at least in that film when Kirk makes a mistake it bites him in the ass and he learns something from it. It was sloppily done, but it was still refreshing to see this Kirk be put in his place and it made him seem more of a believable person.

I'd just call it sheer luck. In ST09, it took a lot of luck to get Kirk into the captain's chair, but when he was in it, he made the one crucial correct decision in trying to stop Nero's attack on Earth rather than meet up with the rest of the fleet.

 

[BillJ]

It's not so much that he has reason NOT to be cautious here, as he does not have reason to be overly suspicious either.

This makes zero sense. He has every reason to be suspicious based on the events we've already witnessed. Frantic call from Carol Marcus about someone taking Genesis on Kirk's authority, the stations communications being jammed then the station going silent then a starship attached to the project refusing to communicate.

Kirk is made to look like an incredible noob here.

 

[YARN]

he commends Saavik for trying to tell him the correct course of action earlier... but it's ultimately up for interpretation.

The closest thing I am aware of to a commendation is this line:

KIRK: I did nothing ...except get caught with my britches down. I must be senile. Mister Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations! In the meantime, let's find out how badly we've been hurt.

The way Shatner plays it in the film, it almost feels like a boast ("I don't like to lose"). His mood doesn't really fall until the turbolift doors open.

We need to keep in mind that hindsight bias (i.e., everyone's a genius about what should have been done the day after) is at play here as well as dramatic irony (i.e., the audience knows that Khan is luring Kirk in, which heightens our sense that Kirk should be cautious, not unlike the midnight movie where an audience member blurts out "Don't go in there girl! Run!").

EDIT

This makes zero sense.

Well, that's uncharitable.

He has every reason to be suspicious based on the events we've already witnessed. Frantic call from Carol Marcus about someone taking Genesis on Kirk's authority, the stations communications being jammed then the station going silent then a starship attached to the project refusing to communicate.

Please reread my prior post. These concerns have already been addressed.

Kirk is made to look like an incredible noob here.

It is supposed to be an embarrassing moment. Our hero is supposed to be second-guessing himself.

 

[BillJ]

It is supposed to be an embarrassing moment. Our hero is supposed to be second-guessing himself.

But there had to be a better way to accomplish that goal than assassinating Kirk's character. It was weak writing.

 

[BillJ]

Kirk didn't even know what Genesis was until Dr. Marcus sends him the message.

Source? Because the movie doesn't support this assumption.

 

[YARN]

It is supposed to be an embarrassing moment. Our hero is supposed to be second-guessing himself.

But there had to be a better way to accomplish that goal than assassinating Kirk's character. It was weak writing.

LOL, it's good writing. It serves both the purpose of the plot and the theme of the story (aging, death, life choices, etc.). Moreover, the sense we get of Kirk not being adequately "by the book" pays off on the reversal of expectations of the landing party being stuck in the Genesis Cave forever; "By the book" Spock exaggerates which suckers Khan into thinking the Enterprise is helpless which allows Kirk to surprise everyone by beaming out of the cave. If Kirk doesn't stumble we don't go "Hell yeah!" when he gets his groove back taking that bite and saying "I don't like to lose."

Source? Because the movie doesn't support this assumption.

KIRK: Give up Genesis, she said. What in God's name does that mean? Give it up to whom?

SPOCK: It might help my analysis if I knew what Genesis was beyond the biblical reference.

KIRK: Uhura, have Doctor McCoy to join us in my quarters.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Source? Because the movie doesn't support this assumption.

KIRK: Give up Genesis, she said. What in God's name does that mean? Give it up to whom?

SPOCK: It might help my analysis if I knew what Genesis was beyond the biblical reference.

KIRK: Uhura, have Doctor McCoy to join us in my quarters.

Spock was the one who didn't know what it was, Kirk was wondering who would try to steal it and why.

 

[BillJ]

Source? Because the movie doesn't support this assumption.

KIRK: Give up Genesis, she said. What in God's name does that mean? Give it up to whom?

SPOCK: It might help my analysis if I knew what Genesis was beyond the biblical reference.

KIRK: Uhura, have Doctor McCoy to join us in my quarters.

Spock was the one who didn't know what it was, Kirk was wondering who would try to steal it and why.

That is the way I've read that scene for thirty-two years.

 

[YARN]

KIRK: Give up Genesis, she said. What in God's name does that mean? Give it up to whom?

SPOCK: It might help my analysis if I knew what Genesis was beyond the biblical reference.

KIRK: Uhura, have Doctor McCoy to join us in my quarters.

Spock was the one who didn't know what it was, Kirk was wondering who would try to steal it and why.

That is the way I've read that scene for thirty-two years.

Let's not lose sight of your contention: Kirk should have known that Reliant was tasked with Project Genesis.

Khan wants revenge on Kirk. He has Kirk on the brain ("Admiral Kirk? Admiral Kirk?!"). Thus Khan claims Kirk is behind grabbing Genesis. This causes Dr. Marcus to contact Kirk. It is not that Kirk is actually behind the development of Genesis or any plot to steal it. It's that Khan wants to lure Kirk in, so he uses his name. At no point are we told that Kirk has any specific knowledge or history of involvement with the project.

When Kirk says, "What in God's name does that mean?" he appears to be genuinely confused.

The only reason we might have to suspect that he knows more than Spock is that, as an Admiral, he might be privy to some secret info which Spock is out of the loop on. But from merely this we have no basis of forming any presumption that Kirk should have known the particulars of the Genesis project (he did appear surprised when he met the other Dr. Marcus, didn't he?) such that he "should have known that Reliant" was tasked with helping Regula 1. Again, they're still in the middle of discussing the particulars of the project when Reliant appears.

EDIT: Memory can be a tricky thing. In the Star Trek which followed the narrative for Genesis "infographic" with Bibi Besch was replaced with William Shatner reading the script. This created a stronger sense of Kirk being involved with the project and with Klingon paranoia and outrage involving Kirk and the so-called "Genesis torpedo."