Well, why don't you ask trevanian to do one?
ST:TMP - Lost Footage from the Trench
- Thread starter alchemist
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Well, why don't you ask trevanian to do one?
trevanian
Rear Admiral
It might not be much different than whatever Dochterman sez on the bluray; I just saw Dochterman's first thoughts on the new movie on his blog, and it just reinforces most reasons I have for not seeing it.
Actually, I offered to provide a kind of 'making-of'/hypertext-style track to Paramount for TUC's laserdisc way WAY back, and they weren't interested in including any extras.
As far as I know, they don't pay for the trek commentaries, so presumably these folks do it as self-promotion or to 'give back' (which isn't quite enough for some of us who haven't 'gotten' anything lately.)
I'm of two or minds minds on TMP, so I imagine I could provide a gusher track as well as a posterior-ripping track practically as an improv act by now ... certainly my wife thinks so, since she's heard enough rants and exclamations ...
You've clearly never met me.Agree to disagree I guess...
The Okudas were relegated to trivial input while the creators of the film commented on what they did. Fair enough.
Dochterman is on the audio commentary of a film he has absolutely no connection to, whatsoever, beyond talking to Robert Wise 20 years after he made it. He wasn't there, did nothing, knows nothing aside information given to him 20 years after the fact.
Put trevanian on the commentary if that's the requirement. He has far more insight on the same level as Dochterman.
Ok...I tried.
Whether you AGREE to DISAGREE or not my conviction is (and will remain so) that Dochterman is uniquely qualified to do a commentary on the film. And whether you and I have met is irrelevant. If you're implying that you have a hard head...well, mine is made of solid titanium. Or deutronium...you know, that stuff the Doomsday Machine was fabricated from? Phasers couldn't penetrate it.
Ask my wife.
Anyway, my point is valid and you have YET to prove to me how Docterman is inelligible and the Okuda's somehow in your bizarre mind are. I clearly explained in my last post, the logical rationale behind my conviction on this and now you are just offering a hard-headed "Unt-uh!" as a rebuttal.
What-everrrr.
You are trying to connect people to the film and justify THEIR participation when the Okudas HAVE NONE...to ANY version of the film.
My conviction stands. Dochterman is more qualified than they are.
Your point about Trevanian is nonsensical. Trevanian hasn't (to my knowledge) worked on ST:TMP -- any version of it! Neither have I. Neither have YOU (I am assuming). That being the case, neither you, I, or Trevanian or THE OKUDAS are really good candidates for doing a commentary on ST:TMP. And you have some strange opposition to Darren Dochterman. I find that...fascinating...
Aside from sheer obstinance, I can't understand why or how you can't get this simple point.
Do you have some axe to grind against Dochterman? Sure reads like sour grapes to me.
At least...you know, I don't CARE if the Okudas did popups or whatever for the various DVDs...but you seem indignant about Dochterman being on there.
Nor would I care if Trevanian was asked to do a commentary...LOL!!! Go Trev go!!! :-)
I didn't say trevenian has worked on ST:TMP.
I clearly stated he has more knowledge that is on the same level as Dochterman's, ie sourced directly from people who worked on the film, than Dochterman has.
Neither of them should be on it.
We're not talking about the Director's Edition.
Having looked at the rest of the commentaries on offer... belch. What a waste of time.
Hey! If you ever decide to do one, can I take part in it? I promise I won't be a mic hog like the screenwriter was for TUC.
And you would know how? I've listened to them and found them to be quite entertaining. Cause that's all it boils down to. This isn't class where we should be taking notes or pin-pointing out the errors in continuity and effects. This is supposed to be fun, entertaining and for those who are new to the films, informative. It's not meant to be the end-all be-all of behind the scenes stories. They're just sitting around, reminiscing on good times, and giving little tidbits as to what they know that others might not know. That's pretty cool!
And if they did these commentaries for nothing, well, that should be commendable. They paid Arnold like $40,000 to do the Total Recall commentary and all he does is talk about what's going on the screen. Compare that to Sylvester Stallone's terrific, entertaining AND informative commentary on First Blood, it's like comparing Christopher Paolini to Shakespeare.
I wish there were more commentaries. I'm addicted to them. When it come to watching a movie with a group of people, I can't help but love to talk over the movies!
And I didn't say that you said Trev had worked on TMP. My point was he hadn't and neither had the Okudas (who you seemed to think were more qualified than Dochterman to do a commentary on ST:TMP)...
Oh whatever...let's just drop it.
And *I* said Dochterman has as much right to do a COMMENTARY as the OKUDAS DO to do those trivial text commentaries.
Damn, you are DENSE mate!
Why do I have to fill in every blank and connect every dot for you?
That's like saying people shouldn't write reviews for a movie they didn't take part in, or that RiffTrax shouldn't riff a movie because they had nothing to do with it.
And the Okudas are more than just simple trekkies. They're Trek historians who have contributed immensely to Star Trek as a whole and what they do is really a labor of love. They're also fun and enjoyable to listen to.
Oh, there were a lot of things that weren't done on this BluRay set that certainly qualifies as lazy. The lack of Director's Editions is certainly proof of that. While I can understand that TMP would not be ready for the release, Star Trek II and VI were simple footage inserts. Seamless Branching would have done the job, no problem. Another example of laziness are the menus. They're all the same with the exception of the music playing in the back ground.
Oh, Douglas Trumbull and John Dykstra already have recorded a commentary track for the film. Unfortunately it was edited for the Director's Edition so no go there.
I find myself agreeing with Jeyl here. I think if someone has credible knowledge about something, no matter how they came about getting it, then they should be allowed to share it if they want to. Why would someone who has done an extensive amount of research in an area be less credible than someone "who was there?" In fact, one could argue that the outside person might have a broader and more objective opinion than the person on the inside.
Woodward and Bernstein didn't participate in Watergate, but they became quite knowledgeable in its shenanigans.
Of course, I use the word "credible" here for a reason. Is there a reason to believe that this is not the case?
My $0.01 cents, accounting for stock market loss.
I agree with you, DS9! However, neither of those people are hard to find...they have websites for crying out loud.
Oh, and for the record -- I don't really care who does the commentaries although it would be nice if they had a connection to the film and could provide a unique perspective both at the same time. I wouldn't burn my DVD in effigy and go on an online tirade, if say, the Okudas did a commentary. Telling the viewer something they haven't read in Starlog, Star Trek: The Magazine, Cinefantastique or The Official Fan Club Magazine a million times might be one criteria I would have for picking the person but that's just me...
Call me crazy. That's my fitty cent...
When lord when!?!!?
I came in a little late to this party.
I went through all 17 pages, wondering when was it ever going to end? When was Alchemist going to reveal this short piece of restored film I've been wondering about since page 1? Sadly, by page 17 we still haven't seen the film. I'm sure Alchemist will be back sooner or later with the link. I can certainly understand the difficulty of juggling projects when one might take precedence over another. Perhaps this footage had to move to the back burner for now.
Anyhow, regarding the placement of the Memory Wall scene. I read maybe ten or so pages back one person wondering exactly where that scene might take place.
I believe this video might help answer that question. I found this while going through other TMP videos on youtube. It is "Star Trek TMP in 10 Minutes" and is a video of the storybook children's record released, apparently, before the movie came out. The video stills are taken from the book.
What makes the record interesting to listen to, most of all, is that all the voices are "impersonated," so Kirk has the stereotypical Kirk-like delivery. Also, the wormhole sequence has been replaced by a "vortex," possibly for the age of the audience listening to the record.
Spock's entire solo entry into Vejur is missing from this record. Instead, at 6:33, Kirk and Spock put on their space suits and go into Vejur and explore the Memory Wall, aka, "Vejur's databanks," where Spock mindmelds with "the data modules" and is overwhelmed by the flood of images. This is punctuated by a dramatic "Uh!" by the actor playing Spock.
I'm not sure if the image seen in the BG between 6:33 and 7:00 was created for the storybook, or was it an actual image from the film.
I went through all 17 pages, wondering when was it ever going to end? When was Alchemist going to reveal this short piece of restored film I've been wondering about since page 1? Sadly, by page 17 we still haven't seen the film. I'm sure Alchemist will be back sooner or later with the link. I can certainly understand the difficulty of juggling projects when one might take precedence over another. Perhaps this footage had to move to the back burner for now.
Anyhow, regarding the placement of the Memory Wall scene. I read maybe ten or so pages back one person wondering exactly where that scene might take place.
I believe this video might help answer that question. I found this while going through other TMP videos on youtube. It is "Star Trek TMP in 10 Minutes" and is a video of the storybook children's record released, apparently, before the movie came out. The video stills are taken from the book.
What makes the record interesting to listen to, most of all, is that all the voices are "impersonated," so Kirk has the stereotypical Kirk-like delivery. Also, the wormhole sequence has been replaced by a "vortex," possibly for the age of the audience listening to the record.
Spock's entire solo entry into Vejur is missing from this record. Instead, at 6:33, Kirk and Spock put on their space suits and go into Vejur and explore the Memory Wall, aka, "Vejur's databanks," where Spock mindmelds with "the data modules" and is overwhelmed by the flood of images. This is punctuated by a dramatic "Uh!" by the actor playing Spock.
I'm not sure if the image seen in the BG between 6:33 and 7:00 was created for the storybook, or was it an actual image from the film.
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