Is the intention to say Neutronium instead of hypoNeutronium?
Spoilers ST Prodigy - StarShips & Technology Season 1 Discussion
- Thread starter Kamen Rider Blade
- Start date
Sure, maybe it seems odd to bump the Prodigy Season 1 thread the day before Prodigy Season 2 comes out (in english), but Dominique Rossier has been posting graphics and UI elements from the Dauntless on ArtStation. I'm not sure if there are any more coming, but here's what's out right now.
Dauntless MSD
Main Bridge 1
Main Bridge 2
Main Bridge 3
Sickbay 1
Sickbay 2
Admiral's Quarters
Transporter
Brig
Airlock
Mess
Viewscreens
Observation Lounge
Door Panel
I haven't scaled it, but from that MSD, it looks like the Dauntless's "real" size might be much smaller than the official size, inverting how the "real" Protostar is something like three times longer than the official figure. Also interesting, the warp core (or intermix chamber, at least), is in the location and size that's normally the main computer. I would not want to be the ship's pilot, sitting directly above that thing.
The options for setting an intercept course on the helm console are fun, though it brings to mind the idea of the idiot-proof Starfleet.
I love the menu in the Mess Hall, which is filled with a bunch of illegible jokes and oddities (using the replicator to make instant powdered hot chocolate feels like it's missing the point from both ends). It's possible those didn't make it into the show, though, it looks like some of the typos and language-barrier oddities were edited before the graphics were used in the actual show, so the "real" menu might be less silly, I haven't checked.
Dauntless MSD
Main Bridge 1
Main Bridge 2
Main Bridge 3
Sickbay 1
Sickbay 2
Admiral's Quarters
Transporter
Brig
Airlock
Mess
Viewscreens
Observation Lounge
Door Panel
I haven't scaled it, but from that MSD, it looks like the Dauntless's "real" size might be much smaller than the official size, inverting how the "real" Protostar is something like three times longer than the official figure. Also interesting, the warp core (or intermix chamber, at least), is in the location and size that's normally the main computer. I would not want to be the ship's pilot, sitting directly above that thing.
The options for setting an intercept course on the helm console are fun, though it brings to mind the idea of the idiot-proof Starfleet.
I love the menu in the Mess Hall, which is filled with a bunch of illegible jokes and oddities (using the replicator to make instant powdered hot chocolate feels like it's missing the point from both ends). It's possible those didn't make it into the show, though, it looks like some of the typos and language-barrier oddities were edited before the graphics were used in the actual show, so the "real" menu might be less silly, I haven't checked.
Actually this is quite timely. I was wondering about how relatively little we saw the Dauntless, and consequentially how much of those CG sets could have been recycled into the Voyager-A. It looks like there really was no recycling done and they are completely separate ships, which is a great indicator of the time and effort poured into the ships we see.
I mean, I know it's not the same thing, but in three seasons of Discovery in the 32nd Century, we don't REALLY see any new starship interiors for that era save for Fed HQ, a seed ship, and a hallway from one ship that was recycled from the Discovery sets. Of course IRL sets are really expensive, but comparatively speaking the ships we see on PRO make the universe feel bigger and more futuristic in an ironic sort of way.
Mark
I mean, I know it's not the same thing, but in three seasons of Discovery in the 32nd Century, we don't REALLY see any new starship interiors for that era save for Fed HQ, a seed ship, and a hallway from one ship that was recycled from the Discovery sets. Of course IRL sets are really expensive, but comparatively speaking the ships we see on PRO make the universe feel bigger and more futuristic in an ironic sort of way.
Mark
Yeah, it's weird how we didn't see more interiors of 32nd century sets.
$$$
And aside from the Breen ships and Mol and La'ak's courier ship, there were no new designs in the final season.
So, $$$
And aside from the Breen ships and Mol and La'ak's courier ship, there were no new designs in the final season.
So, $$$
Truly wonderful replicator menu! Yet with some questionable elements. If the dots next to species indicate popularity, (or suitability- as the dots are not present for humans in the case of the toxic Garnofree) why would Cardassians (who begin their day with hot fish juice) spurn salmon? And why would vegetarian Vulcans partake of it?
Astonishing to see Changeling, El-Aurian, and Roylan (much as I adore welcoming Keenser’s people to memory alpha!) in what might reasonably be a “top 16” list of species eating from this replicator. Strange also that Talaxian and Ocampan make that list while Tellarite, Aurelian, & Lurian (who definitely work around here) do not. Could it just be a list of the last 16 species to use this replicator- which in itself would be a little surprising?
Might be overstepping my area of no expertise when it comes to biochemistry speculation, but Voyager’s EMH once assured us that a blood transfusion from a Vulcan would kill a Bolian, so I wouldn’t expect their culinary tastes to be so similar.
On the other hand, the Voyager’s EMH once implied that Klingons have trouble digesting vegetables, so this list correctly only recommends meats!
Astonishing to see Changeling, El-Aurian, and Roylan (much as I adore welcoming Keenser’s people to memory alpha!) in what might reasonably be a “top 16” list of species eating from this replicator. Strange also that Talaxian and Ocampan make that list while Tellarite, Aurelian, & Lurian (who definitely work around here) do not. Could it just be a list of the last 16 species to use this replicator- which in itself would be a little surprising?
Might be overstepping my area of no expertise when it comes to biochemistry speculation, but Voyager’s EMH once assured us that a blood transfusion from a Vulcan would kill a Bolian, so I wouldn’t expect their culinary tastes to be so similar.
On the other hand, the Voyager’s EMH once implied that Klingons have trouble digesting vegetables, so this list correctly only recommends meats!
The new Klingon Bird of Prey seems to have more "Internal Volume" and doesn't need the Red Piping along the nose for Cloaking anymore!
Maybe the Klingons re-created the Romulan Style Cloaks that don't need obvious piping for Cloaking?
MUCH Larger Rear Entry Gangway
3x Landing Struts instead of 2x for better weight distribution.
2x Extra set of Disruptors on the inside for some reason despite the fact that it's a science ship.
This is a link which showcases a screengrab of the Protostar Photon torpedo specs from season 1.
Among other things, it says that the Blast Zone is 300 Km.
I've been doing some checking, and in order for a photon torpedo to achieve that kind of blast zone, it would need to have a destructive yield of 27 Gigatons.
Yes, I know they carry 1.5kg of antimatter, HOWEVER, the display in Prodigy doesn't say the torpedo carries 1.5kg of matter, BUT, it does say the torpedo is 247.5 kg unloaded.
We know SF makes heavy use of subspace technology in all its systems, weapons included and they make use of advanced materials as well.
So, they likely use subspace tech to radically enhance the effects of their systems and weapons.
Additionally, they could have found a way to allow for the REMAINING mass of the Photon torpedo to interact with the 1.5kg of antimatter (say 100kg), which would enhance the yield to over 2 GT (on a baseline level), while subspace tech can enhance it another 10 times to the needed yield of 27 GT).
Alternatively, if the ratio of matter and antimatter is indeed only 1.5 kg each, then the subspace tech is doing the needed heavy lifting by enhancing the yield 421.8 times from 64MT (baseline) to 27 GT.
64 MT for a photon torpedo doesn't make much sense for hundreds of years more advanced interstellar organisation when the Tsar Bomba already approached similar (but smaller) yields when it was first dropped.
So, since Prodigy canonized 300Km blast zone (and its consistent with the premise that starhships need to maintain a certain distance away from the torpedoes), it gave us the needed numbers to calculate the needed yields.
But are you checking that effect for a blast on Earth / within Atmosphere?
Cause having Atmosphere enhances the lethatlity of a explosive warhead.
In the vacuum of space, the 300 km might be it's maximum explosive range, but the damage output would obviously weaken with distance from the center of the blast radius.
And 64 MT / 1.5 kg of M/A-M might be the standard Photon Torpedo maximum load-out.
Remember, StarFleet mass produces these like we do with missiles here on Earth.
Photon Torpedoes aren't the Be-All / End-All of Torpedo tech.
Both you and I know there are plenty of better Torpedo Warhead tech that are probably more effective.
Photon torpedoes are usually used in space... and while there would be different effects produced in space (aka, lack of resulting shockwave), the yield remains unchanged.
That is, for a Blast Zone to be 300km, the yield of a Type 6 Photon Torpedo would still need to be 27 Gigatons however you put it.
In fact, the lack of an atmosphere means that radiation and EMP effects propagate further than in an atmosphere, potentially causing significant damage over greater distances.
We also know that ships need to fire photon torpedoes from a certain range in space, lest they would suffer damage as well.
So it tracks.
As we know, 64MT is not officially confirmed in canon, and the technical manuals aren't canon either (plus, they don't take into account a variety of high yield feats we saw throughout Trek that go well beyond what TM's have said).
So, I don't buy the premise that photons are limited to 64 MT - and Prodigy also confirms it too with the blast zone of 300 km.
I'd argue that Photon Torpedoes would be MORE deadly within an atmosphere because of the shockwave it produces.
I don't know where you get the 27 Gigatons.
Here is where I get the 64.3 Mt of energy output.
True, while in the vacuum of space, it will go further, the energy spread would still follow the Inverse Square Law.
Ergo the maximum damage from a blast would be near the center point of the blast and any target further away will get less energy based on the Inverse Square law.
300 km being a Maximum Blast Radius makes sense for M/A-M warhead in space.
Don't want to get caught in your own explosive blast but given that we can fight in distances measure in "Light Seconds", 300 km isn't that far in space.
It's not confirmed in "canon", but it's been mathematically known for a while, so short of you wanting to deny the energy calculations of others, I would go with 64.3 Mt for a 1.5 kg M/A-M reaction.
It's still more devastating than the 'Tsar Bomba' which is a 50 Mt Nuclear Fusion Blast.
And think how casually StarFleet is launching Photon Torpedoes, especially on Shuttles.
Each one is more powerful than the most powerful nuke ever detonated on Earth.
The assumption is that the reaction products radiate isotropically.
In the vacuum of space, that is a fairly logical assumption, especially given the VFX we've seen before for Torpedoes exploding.
Assuming the explosion is not shaped asymmetrically.
That sounds like a seperate Warhead design.
It would require less energy to achieve the same effect, yes, but not as low as you think it does.
Also, Photon torpedoes are intended to use in SPACE first.
While shockwaves in an atmosphere can indeed cause more structural damage, the lack of atmosphere in space means energy primarily propagates as radiation and high-energy particles. This means a higher yield is necessary to achieve a significant blast radius in space.
To achieve a 300 km blast zone in space, the necessary yield is about 27 gigatons (GT) based on the cube root scaling law. A 64.3 MT yield would result in a much smaller blast radius of about 40 km.
The scaling law shows:
300 ≈ 10 × (E)¹/³
E ≈ 30³ = 27,000 MT = 27 GT
Even if you want to achieve the 300 km blast zone on a planet with the atmosphere enhancing the effects:
Historical data shows that atmospheric effects (shockwave, thermal radiation) significantly extend the blast radius.
Empirical data suggests this factor could range from 1.5 to 2.
Let's use 2 for good measure estimate which leads us to:
Eₚₗₐₙₑₜ = Eₛₚₐcₑ / 2
Eₚₗₐₙₑₜ = 27 GT / 2
Eₚₗₐₙₑₜ = 13.5 GT
So, on a planet, to achieve a blast radius of 300km, you need 13.5 GT antimatter explosion... and while lower than 27GT for just space, the energy requirement is STILL well in the GT range.
A 64.3 MT antimatter explosion would have a blast radius of about 80km on a planet (I'm taking into account differences between nuclear and antimatter btw).
Yes, energy in space follows the inverse square law, meaning intensity decreases with distance. Therefore, to achieve a 300 km blast zone, a significantly higher yield (27 GT) is required to account for this energy dispersion. Despite radiation traveling further in space, the initial yield must be large enough to maintain a high-intensity blast over that distance.
If we're talking about a planetary surface, the atmospheric conditions will lower that yield to 13.5GT.
There is just no way a 64MT antimatter blast can create 300km blast zone... on a planet, or in space.
Its' not, but ships have been at close distances to objects before, and usually, it was at those very close distances (arguably very visible and close distances) that photon torpedo use was NOT advised.
Considering the fact Photon torpedoes have a range of 3.5 million km, while phasers likely top out at 300,000 km, you'd want to be able to use them at such distances without EVER having to worry about potential fallout from an explosive blast zone of torpedoes themselves.
In this case, ignoring the calculations of others is recommended because they obviously don't mesh with the data or the higher end yield feats witnessed on-screen.
And while certainly 64.3 MT is higher than the Tsar Bomba, let's put things into perspective here: in the vastness of space, 64.3 MT is nothing, especially for an organisation that's been in operation for over 200 years.
At least GT level yields make more of a sense and is more in line with progression levels in weapons technology and the feats we witnessed (heck, for the feat as seen in the Die is Cast, you'd need Teraton and Petaton levels of yields per torpedo - which are A LOT more difficult to account for/but not impossible).
This is why I keep saying that there are OTHER mechanisms in Trek that account for the higher yields which would be in the Gigaton range instead but still achieved with 1.5kg of antimatter explosion, such as more efficient matter to energy conversion technologies that can make use of the extra mass of the torpedo to get higher yields and use of subspace technologies for yield amplification (neither of which are novelties in Trek or for Starfleet).
Sorry, but I would say the calculations of others are wrong because if you want to account for a blast zone of 300km, the fact of the matter is, you need GT level yields. So an energy amplification effect has to be in place, or something else is interacting with the 1.5kg of antimatter to produce those kinds of effects.
Also, considering the Ent-D alone used Tritanium for its hull (the outer plating was 30.4cm thick), which was 21.4x stronger than diamond, you'd need GT level yields to seriously damage it (SIF and other tricks would reduce the effects yes, but regardless, MT level yields just wouldn't be enough to cause the damage we saw).
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That's for whales
I have seen/heard the original called a "fighter" so that's my idea of tactical.
This is a streamlined design for the show--at the RPF, you see a physical model going for detail.
I miss the old early resin kit that looked to scale really small.
"Fighter Craft" shouldn't be that big, that's like calling a C-130 sized craft a "Fighter".
You shouldn't be able to have a freaking Multi-Studio Apartment go along with your "Fighter Craft".
The Klingon Bird of Prey is a upsized PT Boat from WW2 / Coast Guard Cutter.
It's not meant to be so small that you can classify it as a highly manueverable "Fighter".
I would class 'fighter craft' as vessels that are the size of a Shuttle and Runabouts (Delta Flyer included).
Once you reach the size of that 30 year old Starfleet design which the Maqui used as a raider along with Raven class (7's parents), those and anything above would likely fall into full blown starship category (or basically, anything that has 2 decks perhaps?).
