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ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season One SPOILER Discusssion

I can't wait till we get a better look at the Starfleet tugs, and there's been a fair amount of discussion of them already. What resonated to me is how we're finally seeing the Franz Joseph-esque arrangement of tug an cargo modules realized. Also, the highlight hull color is a rust red, which hasn't been seen before in TNG-era starship design - the Sovereign class has darker grey paneling here and there, but not a contrasting color like red. Does it signify the ships' Martian origin? Or were they just built so quickly that LaForge forgot to apply Rust-eze to some of the parts?

Pumped about the FJ-styled ships too, and extremely glad they didn't just reuse the Zimmerman tugs from DSC/Children of Mars. I'm not seeing the rust-red coloring you're describing. Perhaps it's just the glare from the planet?

And if there's a model of each of his commands, why isn't the USS Verity there? ;)

I think we all know why ;)

They keep B4's components in a box and apparently that's the only one they have in the lab. What about Lore? You'd think they'd find a place there for his body - and not reactivate him under any circumstance, ban or not.

Either Lore was completely destroyed, or he's gone (of his own free will, someone stole him, etc.) Or the writers simply forgot about him like John Logan did.

Dipping a bit ahead to the next episode clip seen on Wil Wheaton's "Ready Room" show, the VFX guys went through all the trouble of making a new GC model of the Enterprise -D to use presumably for both the opening shot of this episode and for the holo-display in SFHQ's lobby... But then they have to use THAT version of the Enterprise alongside it. And with a notable janky flicker between the images too, instead of a smoother transition! One can only hope that it's a temporary art installation. ;)

That version of the Enterprise was shown simply to inform the audience that DSC and STP take place in the same universe. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
- I can't wait till we get a better look at the Starfleet tugs, and there's been a fair amount of discussion of them already. What resonated to me is how we're finally seeing the Franz Joseph-esque arrangement of tug an cargo modules realized.

Also, the relative dimensions are pure FJ: two container clusters in tow, both the same relative length as the FJ cylinders. Although, as said, clusters. I wonder how those move from orbit to surface and back. No doubt Khan's hut made it to Ceti Alpha V the same way...

Also, the highlight hull color is a rust red, which hasn't been seen before in TNG-era starship design - the Sovereign class has darker grey paneling here and there, but not a contrasting color like red. Does it signify the ships' Martian origin? Or were they just built so quickly that LaForge forgot to apply Rust-eze to some of the parts?

Built on the surface, with certain bits catching the rusty dust more readily than others? Gravitics leakage, say.

More color highlights is good. DSC had some, even if in the end all of it was black.

- We've seen media interviews in Trek before, but I think this is the first time we've seen an entire camera crew. Usually it's just the reporter themselves plus a wearable camera or portable doodad. Also, why are the camera (?) drones buzzing around like that? The shots we see from the kitchen TV are from typical locked-down camera angles. Even the push in to Picard's face was done from where we don't readily see a drone. Wouldn't it make more sense to set up a holographic field to capture EVERYTHING, and then for the news crew to edit down from there?

We might argue that while a tricorder or "Identity Crisis" style headcam or somesuch can produce enough data to create a workable holosimulation where the obscured areas are guesstimated, a "true", "authentic" 3D image still requires actual line-of-sight shots from many directions. Not constant shots - just references so that the computer can calculate the simulated left and right cheek of Picard correctly for every millisecond. So the drones gather the reference shots, possibly again and again if the target to be depicted moves or changes or is lit differently or should have more of the surroundings included.

- Further use of holography as a mirror, as established previously in DSC.

...One wonders about future mirrors in general. The flat and simple-looking ones in the E-D bathrooms often went dark (that is, the camera crew put cardboard there to prevent themselves from being reflected). What's the in-universe explanation for that? Are the mirrors viewscreens that can be turned off? If so, perhaps they can do nifty things - but what nifty things?

- 900 million Romulans were to be evacuated by 10,000 warp ferries. Obviously this DOESN'T necessarily mean that each ferry would carry 90,000 Romulans each in one go... They probably made some relatively simple calculations about where they would have to go, how long it would take a ship at a certain warp speed to get there and back and how big a ship of the needed speed they could build by a certain deadline to effect an evacuation before the supernova hit Romulus. Add to that the logistical preparation of both the evacuating population and destination site(s), and the need to sustain them along the way, and you balance everything out to start designing and building ships in waves that would start the evacuation as soon as they were ready to go. Also, I'm sure the Romulan Empire wasn't standing idly by and was doing their own thing in concert with Starfleet's plan.

It's a bit odd, though. They had four years, minimum. The average trip to another star system of interest (in general, one with a Class M planet) in most shows takes less than a day. During the Dominion War, troops were being ferried; would those troops make a difference unless they represented at least some decent fraction of the manpower currently/classically needed in infantry ops? The troop carriers might be expected to handle a billion people in four years without further construction already - 1,400 days, so perhaps a thousand times a troop convoy which could be expected to move divisions, that is, thousands to tens of thousands at a time. We get a million to ten million there already: how many troop convoys simultaneously during the war?

- One wonders if the Index program is pre-EMH. Her flickering effects suggest they are more utilitarian and less flashy, and she doesn't directly touch anything (though she isn't called to).

...Perhaps they are currently experimenting on flickering, for the exact same reason they are experimenting on humor?

- Speaking of flickering, Dahj's phone's holo interface is relatively flicker-free, except when the image of her mom conveniently goes janky as if she's talking to a computer program... OTOH, the phone's interface is moving around with her hand whenever you see her hand, but it's pretty static when we look over Dahj's shoulder at her mom, no matter how she moves.

Yes. But perhaps it's a point-of-view issue? Much like how we saw Stamets viewing that recording of Culber, weirdy distorted from the POV of the audience. If the camera is not the eyes of Dahj, it won't correctly prompt the imagery to adjust to eye and body movements.

- So how exactly does Dahj die? The assassin apparently cracks a tooth and spits on her, but also the gun. She (and the assassin) start melting right away, but the liquid also apparently sets off the gun to blow up BOTH their melting bodies.Was that the intent?

It would seem so. That is, the intent was for both to die: certainly the Romulan himself started immediately rotting away at the jaw, and couldn't have expected to survive. And there was catastrophic damage to Dahj's body even before the gun blew.

- So the "police" (Starfleet security, no? Who gets jurisdiction for an explosion on the Headquarters campus?) find Picard, and just send him home unconscious? How did they get him there? And why did they drop him on a couch instead of upstairs? You'd think they'd put him an a hospital for observation, or at least until he woke up!

Starfleet is the police, unless PIC becomes the first-ever Trek show to tell us otherwise...

Perhaps we can play the old man card, and assume that Picard was waking up for the third time, having little recollection of the previous times at the hospital and at the police station?

- The Daystrom Institute is in Okinawa, Japan. Having BEEN to Okinawa, I can confidently say that cliffs such as the one the Institute is built over are rare. It's not a large island. :)

Well, in US WWII history, Okinawa is famed for the cliffs where the civilians jumped to their deaths because they so feared the propagandist image of the white devils...

...But perhaps the cliff is the result of an interesting Daystrom experiment gone wrong? (Or right?)

- They keep B4's components in a box and apparently that's the only one they have in the lab. What about Lore? You'd think they'd find a place there for his body - and not reactivate him under any circumstance, ban or not.

Perhaps they wanted to test to destruction one of the brothers, and were torn between the idiot and the homicidal maniac, but the faint hope of recovering bits of Data tipped the scales against Lore?

Or then the more clever Soongian, captured first, conveniently got misfiled at some point, and currently is nowhere to be found. But Soong presumably left plenty of prototypes behind, including the ones known to his "wife", and the ones unknown such as B-4. His Omicron Theta lab wasn't exactly destroyed, either, even if it was sterilized; his later lab was thrashed but not annihilated. Daystrom might have plenty of material to research, and never mind the androids hopefully recovered from TOS sites.

- Among the collection of tools on the robotics desk are a bunch of 20th century calibrated pipettes, used to measure liquids for scientific application. One wonders what kinds of fluids are being exchanged in this lab to warrant them.

...No doubt ones containing a fair share of nanites, whatever the purpose.

- Dipping a bit ahead to the next episode clip seen on Wil Wheaton's "Ready Room" show, the VFX guys went through all the trouble of making a new GC model of the Enterprise -D to use presumably for both the opening shot of this episode and for the holo-display in SFHQ's lobby... But then they have to use THAT version of the Enterprise alongside it. And with a notable janky flicker between the images too, instead of a smoother transition! One can only hope that it's a temporary art installation. ;)

I'm sort of happy the cat is out of the bag. The more the sorta-TMP nil-ship gets screen minutes, the clearer it becomes that we have to rationalize it in somehow...

And of course what we get is the best of both worlds, because once again this is clearly a rotating display, allowing for it to feature not just multiple ships but multiple incarnations thereof. I wonder if any other Enterprise got that many...

(Perhaps the E-B did turn into a standard Excelsior at some point? And perhaps the E-C was utterly rebuilt into the Probert specs, making it an even more amazing transformer than the nil.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
I watch "Picard" with the wife and daughter, but I snuck an early, no-audio look at the tugs. :)

- They are certainly inspired by the Sovereign class design. A Sovvie saucer is built around a sort of dorsal "wedge" shape extending from fore to aft - these ships seem to take that shape and simply remove the rounder parts of the saucer from the sides. To me, it communicates that these ships are stripped-down from a typical Starfleet design and concentrating on propulsion, navigation and towing capacity, leaving out all those superflouous elements that a full saucer would need.

- I'm not good enough to estimate the sizes of these ships, but without pods they still aren't huge. Going by the vaguely Runabout-length not-Argo shuttles going by, around 400m in length with nacelles, perhaps? This makes them roughly analogous to the old Ptolemy class but for the current era.

- This in turn suggests a passenger capacity of at least several thousand at a go, assuming we are talking a Dunkirk-esque evacuation and not a moving truck sort of scenario. How many transits would they be expected to do for the evacuation?

- Some of the ships are in formation but without their impulse grilles lit. This is not necessarily an indicator of anything.

- I feel like these ships are akin to WWII Liberty ships, which the US Navy were cranked out in the thousands between 1941-45 to transport troops and logistics across the pond. They were made to last just five years, and built to standardized plans to facilitate mass production and crew training.

Mark
 
- They are certainly inspired by the Sovereign class design. A Sovvie saucer is built around a sort of dorsal "wedge" shape extending from fore to aft - these ships seem to take that shape and simply remove the rounder parts of the saucer from the sides. To me, it communicates that these ships are stripped-down from a typical Starfleet design and concentrating on propulsion, navigation and towing capacity, leaving out all those superfluous elements that a full saucer would need.

I like that a lot. Although the central wedge is also an ENT thing in Eaves' products and sketches, and this bears a close resemblance to a couple of his dropped "The Expanse" hull designs.

- I'm not good enough to estimate the sizes of these ships, but without pods they still aren't huge. Going by the vaguely Runabout-length not-Argo shuttles going by, around 400m in length with nacelles, perhaps? This makes them roughly analogous to the old Ptolemy class but for the current era.

Possibly no bigger than the FJ Ptolemy. And probably not as large as the Ptolemy would be if constructed of DSC Constitution parts... Even 300 meters is quite possible, I think.

It was pointed out at the PIC subforum that we can see a shuttle sailing out of the container cluster in the background, so we get pretty precise relative measurements there. The shuttle is vintage Eaves, although never quite shown next to a good yardstick in his sketches which date back to 2007. Ever since the 2011 calendar, the design of this McCall class has remained basically unchanged, and is faithfully reproduced here, down to the paint scheme. It's sort of era-agnostic, lacking nacelles...

- This in turn suggests a passenger capacity of at least several thousand at a go, assuming we are talking a Dunkirk-esque evacuation and not a moving truck sort of scenario. How many transits would they be expected to do for the evacuation?

As said, going from star to interesting star only takes days. Add at most a day at each end: stevedoring in Trek is efficient in general. There could be thousands or at least hundreds of transits involved. And then naturally further traffic from the initial drop points on, as situation warranted - but if the main wave of destruction was only lightspeed, very short hops should suffice.

- Some of the ships are in formation but without their impulse grilles lit. This is not necessarily an indicator of anything.

It's consistent with the so far common idea that the glow is unrelated to state of motion, and merely indicates that the tailpipe is belching out exhausts related to the engine being powered up. If most of the ships aren't moving, but some are about to or have just arrived, it's a good thing to see this mix.

- I feel like these ships are akin to WWII Liberty ships, which the US Navy were cranked out in the thousands between 1941-45 to transport troops and logistics across the pond. They were made to last just five years, and built to standardized plans to facilitate mass production and crew training.

It is also possible that the ships preexist, and it's those containers that are being churned out in great numbers and called "ferries". But it may be telling that the ship closest to the camera is named "TUG ??/????" rather than anything proper! (That is, the top of the towing-fixture wedge features this text.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
The insertion of the Discovery Enterprise is simply to cement to all the screamers and fit throwers that it *IS* the Enterprise (1701) and that Discovery and Picard are both the prime, true timeline.
 
The insertion of the Discovery Enterprise is simply to cement to all the screamers and fit throwers that it *IS* the Enterprise (1701) and that Discovery and Picard are both the prime, true timeline.
They can state whatever they want is the "Prime / True" time line.

But as far as I'm concerned, they are different off-spring of the Multiverse of Star Trek IMO.

Ever since the Abrams-verse and Discovery, they ST: Picard has been shunted into it's own parallel universe IMO.

Which is different from the TOS / TNG era.

Which is fine IMO. That's how I interpret it.
 
Well, you know, Martian dust...

The registry in all previous Eaves art relating to this design is on the wings. Here, clearly not. So perhaps under some of that dark soot in the forward hull? The dark square area above the windshield would be one candidate. But none of the six craft visible in the group shot have a sufficiently clean "license plate" - how likely is that?

Might be mere transponders suffice: there's no pennant paint or license plate on Picards taxi, either.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Thought a bit about the issue of Dahj's home replicator apparently having only so few patterns . As hinted at by the existence of Starfleet's Quantum Archives, it could be that the Federation solved the problems of replicated food not being identical to unreplicated food and replicators seen in Picard could simply be more advanced than the ones seen in TNG, DS9 and Voyager. They might offer quantum resolution, which would possibly make the replicated foods and drinks identical to the "real thing". Of course such patterns may need a lot more memory space...

Seems like i was right with this, according to the talk with the workers in the flashback to 2385, at the beginning of "Maps and Legends".
 
Hmh? Weren't they lamenting the new thing, wishing the "uno-amino matrices" or whatnot came back? It didn't sound like sarcasm.

But everybody's a food critic. Perhaps the new replicators are indeed better, which displeases many people. Or perhaps they are inferior, which is accepted development with consumer products here and now?

The futuro-forensics were interesting: how does a handheld doodad turn back time and reveal the past, exactly? But if Romulans are that good, are Feds really so far behind that the best they could do in the field of forensics is the bumbling in "Aquiel"? Why isn't every crime aboard Picard's ship solved by asking the computer whodunnit, and getting the answer in 0.68 milliseconds?

A flying car seen up close, and then a hundred copies of her in the deep background... Was that the latest hot, or the VW Beetle of the 24th century?

What else? Picard takes a taxi slightly to the left of the exact middle of nowhere, and the taxi then takes off. And then Raffi thinks Picard ought to call it to take him aboard and whisk him to where he came from. So what sort of a communications device is Picard supposed to be carrying? Something in his pocket? Or inside his head? Nothing on his wrists, say... And the old commbadge he originally used for contacting Raffi would probably be for hyper-clandestine calls only (plus he isn't wearing it on his chest).

Timo Saloniemi
 
Hmh? Weren't they lamenting the new thing, wishing the "uno-amino matrices" or whatnot came back? It didn't sound like sarcasm.

But everybody's a food critic. Perhaps the new replicators are indeed better, which displeases many people. Or perhaps they are inferior, which is accepted development with consumer products here and now?

The joke about replicating flies, made it seem like the replicators are indeed better than earlier models. And from what is said during the scene, it seems like the workers could only replicate this dish. Which they probably wouldn't choose if they could order something else.
 
The real joke about that "replicator terminal"?
It's an actual, used 3D printer according to the episode profile on Memory Alpha.
 
...What is the facility supposed to be doing? They call it the "tri-hi" or somesuch.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Because civilians demand quality, while a soldier demanding something is punished?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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