Spoilers ST Lower Decks - Starships and Technology Season One Discusssion

Mark_Nguyen

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Like it says! The third new Trek series in as many years returns us to familiar-ish territory with a shiny-ish new crew and a shiny-ish new ship primed for a series of crazy and potentially litigious adventures.

I think it's safe to assume that the animation style will not lend itself to a variety of consistency and continuity errors - misshapen phasers, stuff not to scale, etc. But still, in many ways this show will plug a hole in the canon of post-TNG-era Star Trek that people have been aching to fill. Will the tech be as interesting or canon-fitting as the other two series in this production era? Or will the interesting choice of placing it one year after Nemesis be fertile ground to explore, especially given that the assorted flashbacks in Season One of "Picard" start around a year later when the latter is promoted off of the Enterprise-E?

Me, I'm hoping to see some familiar things again.

- Set design for one - the bright lights of the USS Cerritos are very Enterprise-D, even if the cool color palette harkens to Voyager and most ships of the era that aren't the -D or -E.

- The TNG phasers are there, though I dunno if their lack of curviness was a deliberate choice compared to the ones we got in VOY and the later TNG movies.

- The ship herself has already been discussed a lot from the trailer thread, but I'm very comfy seeing that the Galaxy-class saucer aesthetic didn't die with that class being the only large example of the saucer, at least. If the scale is correct, the saucer is likely larger than a GCS, which is great and a little off-putting at the same time. On one hand, the animation medium may allow for the absolutely huge volume of the ship to be visualized better - swimming pools, whole parks, a full size hockey rink next to the basketball court, etc. But on the other, if such things show up it would be incongruous with the "look" of the era previously visualized with TV-sized practical sets and the occasional reference to the dolphin habitat.

- The bridge. Is square...ish? But all the usual TNG stations are there and familiar enough to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. But there's actually enough space between the conn and ops stations to allow everyone in the command chairs a decent view out the window! But they're missing two science stations off the back wall. Indicative of the ship's mission?

- The shuttles look derivative of the Voyager version of the TNG version, with angled pylons versus the TNG "shoved under the hull" look. Good enough for me!

- Lots of maintenance in an era where the Enterprise-D was meant to "clean itself". Make-work in a post-want society?

- While not likely right off the bat, an established formation flypast with an established ship class would do WONDERS for a lot of our questions for the Cerritos.

I'm sure that we'll have SO much more to go over episode by epsidoe - possibly more so that before, as Picard largely steered clear of Starfleet and DSC planted a firm stand for an aesthetic that is so different from its placed era. I'm curious as to how much would be forgiven by the fandom at large for a show that happens so soon after "Nemesis", but OTOH how much the show may be embraced for its light-hearted approach WHILE trying to stick to a relatively established canon era. Thoughts?

Mark
 
...I'm looking forward to adversary designs from this era, stuff that we're unlikely to get from anywhere else. Even if the Cerritos is the only new Starfleet ship design in the entire show, I'll be happy - but this is our best hope for a modern Klingon vessel, or for variety in the Romulan, Ferengi and Cardassian arsenals.

It's indeed a bit uncomfortable that the Cerritos is such a huge ship. Any comparison shot with a known ship design will work to the advantage of this supposedly humble second contact vessel; are we instead going to get dialogue and action that supports the notion of the hero ship's guns, engines or sensors being inferior to Picard's tools of trade?

(Or perhaps they aren't, and the ship holds pariah status because her captain is an incompetent idiot and her officers were hand-picked by her to be even less capable?)

There are no hints so far of all-new technologies (save for Blast Shields!). PIC showed us that holo-controls, cheap but effective planetary defense grids and quantum storage are going to be introduced at some point, along with advanced Soongian tech; PIC gave us no timetable, though. None of those would be game-changers for LDS, plotwise, although perhaps the improved, faster transporters could be.

The feline doctor might benefit from some late 24th century advances, although good old-fashioned open-heart surgery without anesthesia seems to work fine, too... The ocular implant is gonna get some story attention early on, and perhaps amounts to a superpower. But so far, none of the characters seems to be Data level weird, or even Worf level weird: they're just silly humans or near-humans all. Here's hoping for some major tentacle action in the future!

Timo Saloniemi
 
I was looking at screencaps today (we can only watch the trailer with a VPN here in Canadia) and saw that there are crew quarters on this ship with bunk beds stacked two high along a Voyager-esque "crooked corridor" sort of arrangement. What with the starship volumes being as ginormous as they already are, I wonder what would justify them being packed in even more, given the apparent volume of the Cerritos' hull. As it stands even on the least generous deck plans, there's no reason why 140-something people on Voyager ever need roommates, let alone anyone on the Defiant..

Mark
 
There are two other new Starfleet ship classes shown, but they are very far in the background. One looks similar to the Cerritos but has more of a trapezoidal saucer and what looks like an attached secondary hull. The other looks like the small Section 31 ship from DSC but a 24th century version of it.
 
Timo: (Or perhaps they aren't, and the ship holds pariah status because her captain is an incompetent idiot and her officers were hand-picked by her to be even less capable?)

Me: I can't see that happening. For all that the ad campaign to promote the series is pushing the "least important ship" line, I'm not seeing that actually being true. Also, we've gotten promises that the Cerritos crew are going to be depicted as both smart and kind-hearted. If the California class are really second-line ships, Starfleet Personnel wouldn't mess around. Second impressions will be just as important, if not more so.
 
If the scale is correct, the saucer is likely larger than a GCS, which is great and a little off-putting at the same time.
It's indeed a bit uncomfortable that the Cerritos is such a huge ship. Any comparison shot with a known ship design will work to the advantage of this supposedly humble second contact vessel; are we instead going to get dialogue and action that supports the notion of the hero ship's guns, engines or sensors being inferior to Picard's tools of trade?

It's much smaller than the Galaxy, I made a quick comparison of the MSMDs using 7 decks as a scale bar:

2ACKKk7.png


Kc44lmB.png
 
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Wow, thanks for doing this. Also, putting the Cerritos next to the E-D gives it a great context to work from. That, AND I can totally see the two side-by-side at that size! Do all the Cerritos windows still match up though? there seem to be multiple decks with small windows on the exterior that seem somehow like it's one deck with windows so you can see outside with your eyes AND your toes.

The famous twin banks of windows on the underside of the Galaxy saucer seem to distort the size somewhat. Not that we've never truly seen interior sets that can match them, of course.

Mark
 
The scale makes it more clear that having turboshaft loop de looping around inside the nacelles to get to the secondary hull won't be inordinately weird - just normally so.

This also puts the nacelle size under the microscope... Again assuming the NCCs are sequential-ish in this era (i.e. ignoring the mounting body of evidence that they aren't overall), the Cerritos was commissioned shortly after Voyager was in 2370 or so. The CLASS of the ship could be much older (as old as the 2350s when assorted pre-Galaxy ovoid saucer ships probably popped up), but the nacelles are proportionately larger and longer than ships of that era. A refit perhaps? Could earlier ships of the California class have had Galaxy-style nacelles and support struts without gaps in between?

And any reason they should be so big? There's no real correlation between nacelle size and speed (i.e. Voyager), but perhaps their size could be a function of the amount of cargo they can carry? Or tow? Earlier speculation figured she could be a tug class, but in practice we've never EVER seen standard cargo pods in on-screen Starfleet ships, if you're not counting ENT-era haulers. The saucer here should be able to house a ridiculous amount of internal cargo, at the least.

Mark
 
Unless we see the USS California and her registry number, we won’t know how old the class is (and that’s assuming registries are chronological.)
 
So the first couple of minutes of the first episode have been revealed. They’re still using the STIII Spacedock as a starbase, even in 2380. There are some far background starships without much detail (and there are two that just look like one was flipped over to create the other one.)
 
Unless we see the USS California and her registry number, we won’t know how old the class is (and that’s assuming registries are chronological.)
Trailer has the Cerritos as NCC-75567. Pretty high up there. In fact, looking at Ex Astris, the only ship with a higher number is the USS Ibn Majid (NCC-75710). Certainly newer than the Galaxy series ranging from 70xxx-71xxx and the Intrepid series using 74xxx. The only one that came close was Data’s scout ship from Insurrection at NCC-75227; still not higher than the Cerritos. So, ostensibly, this is one of the newest ships in the known fleet.
 
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Trailer has it as NCC-75567. Pretty high up there. In fact, looking at Ex Astris, the only ship with a higher number is the USS Ibn Majid (NCC-75710). Certainly newer than the Galaxy series ranging from 70xxx-71xxx and the Intrepid series using 74xxx.

I was talking about the Cerritos’s class ship, the U.S.S. California. We’d only know how long the class was in production for if we knew the California’s registry. If it was, say, NCC-70023, then the class would have been around for a much longer time.
 
Ooh, so it’s entirely possible that the Cerritos was commissioned during the Dominion War? Fascinating! I wonder if that explains any of the design choices, if the California class was dropped at about the same time...

Mark
 
If USS Galaxy - NCC-70637 - entered service in 2357, per TNGTM, then that tells me other things about the age of these other vessels, including USS Cerritos. Perhaps close to two decades' active service before our Lower Decks heroes come aboard her? Including participation in the Dominion War?

As for the runabouts we know from DS9 and that scout ship from INS, they'd be assigned all over the place before they crossed our heroes' various paths...
 
The Sao Paulo might have been a contemporary of the Defiant for all we know: constructed, partially constructed or ordered back in the mid-2360s, then abandoned, and eventually completed for the war. We really lack data on assuredly new ships in Trek, there being no registries on the PIC ones, low registries on all the others, and nothing about the launching of an all-new class or whatever.

Giving the Cerritos some history would be fine. Giving her a launch date isn't out of the question, either, as we might see a suitably comical dedication plaque at some point, with suitably detailed text. But I guess we can live without this just fine, too. The thick-rimmed saucer reminds me of the Cheyenne class the most... And the long nacelles might befit that era, too, with Starfleet then churning out these Second Contact Specialist Ships since the 2350s without much ado or improvement.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The ship with the highest canon NCC registry is the USS Ticonderoga, with its registry of NCC-87270, from a graphic seen in "Conspiracy".
Huh those ships in the 80ks weren't on M-A's NCC list last time I looked, someone edited it since then.

Edit: But the last page edit was in April... I swear to god I was on that page earlier this week and those entries were not there.

Edit 2: I was right, I have a screen cap right here with the list ending at the Ibn Majid, which I took on July 12th
unknown.png


Maybe the wiki doesn't register table edits? I'm so confused.

Edit 3: My capture came from a different page, but I can't figure out which lmao.

Edit 4:Found it! https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_starship_registries

Sorry it was driving me crazy.
 
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