ST IV-Dead in Space ?

[Silversmok3]

Here's something that bothers me about ST-IV:When the probe shows up and turns off the lights at Spacedock,every vessel,shuttle,lift,and system-including life support- failed.

How did all those people survive being in space with absolutely no power until Kirk and Co. got back to the 23rd century?I'm assuming even spacesuits wouldn't have worked ,since they need power to cycle their atmosphere.

 

[Bones]

No time passed in the 23rd century while Our Heros were back in the 20th. They returned the exact minute they left.

 

[sbk1234]

There was nothing that happened to their power that five minutes at a typewriter couldn't fix.

 

[Silversmok3]

No time passed in the 23rd century while Our Heros were back in the 20th. They returned the exact minute they left.

Ah,but there's a delay from when the crew crashes at San Fransisco to the time the released whales convince the probe to leave.In the meantime,you've got several thousand people floating in space without even a AA battery to live off of.

 

[Bones]

I'm presuming they got by on batteries and other systems.

Even if there is absolutely no power or other reserves there is still residual head and breathable atmosphere.

 

[Starseeker]

And residual head is the best kind of head.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I'm presuming they got by on batteries and other systems.

The scene on the Saratoga refers to "reserve power". Presumably, after the probe moved on, they were able to switch to batteries. The probe may have knocked down generators, but it wouldn't have changed the chemical composition of battery components.

The captain of the Yorktown says that it has been 3 hours since they encountered the probe, and their reserves are depleted. Their engineers were attempting to rig a makeshift solar sail, to restore enough power for life support. Also, his statement about depletion couldn't have been completely accurate, or communications wouldn't have been working. He was on the viewscreen at SFC.

I seem to recall an old sourcebook mentioning something about Federation starships having 2 hours of battery power, but I can't remember exactly where that was.

The truth is, though, that we don't know that those two crews didn't die. The tragedy of their loss might have been outweighed in many people's minds by relief that it didn't end up wiping out Earth.

 

[garamet]

No time passed in the 23rd century while Our Heros were back in the 20th. They returned the exact minute they left.

Ah,but there's a delay from when the crew crashes at San Fransisco to the time the released whales convince the probe to leave.In the meantime,you've got several thousand people floating in space without even a AA battery to live off of.

That time only passes in the 20th century, not the 23rd.

 

[Dayton3]

You can survive in a spacecraft with very little power for days.

The Apollo 13 crew survived in the Lunar Excursion Module with no heat and only a couple of CO2 scrubbers working for several days .

Power was only a few watts at best.

 

[Silversmok3]

No time passed in the 23rd century while Our Heros were back in the 20th. They returned the exact minute they left.

Ah,but there's a delay from when the crew crashes at San Fransisco to the time the released whales convince the probe to leave.In the meantime,you've got several thousand people floating in space without even a AA battery to live off of.

That time only passes in the 20th century, not the 23rd.

I'm talking about the *23rd* century,where there is a delay between the crash of the Klingon BoP and the departure of the probe.In between Kirk manually triggers the doors,the crew evacuates,and the whales speak to the probe before it leaves.In that period of time+ the time the probe spent in orbit,Spacedock and Earth are deprived of power.While starships have 2 hours of battery,how much does spacedock have?

 

[Tulin]

Yes and we are saying it was all of about ten minutes.


Oh and I don't know why, but the term "scrubbers" for oxygen replenishment(whatever)in ships is just SO weird to me. I actually really hate it.

 

[Timo]

It's pretty descriptive, tho: those things scrub "dirt" off the oxygen so that it can be reused...

And usually those things don't really require power as such, at least not electrical power being pumped in from some outside source. These, and probably many other things aboard spacecraft and starships, run on chemical reactions that are independent of the power grid. If the reactions are summarily shut down by an alien intruder, then necessarily all the humanoids aboard also immediately perish, because the very same reactions sustain their bodies.

So yeah, count me in the camp where starships can sustain life for dozens of minutes or several hours when "main" and "auxiliary" power goes out and the "batteries" are drained. I'm really more worried about the effects of sudden power loss on antimatter containment... If the Whale Probe somehow "depowered" all antimatter, and then restored its potency, then everything is all right. But that process in itself sounds a bit too fantastic to my tastes. (Yes, even when I'm explicitly told to accept it in a couple of TOS episodes.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Silversmok3]

I'm really more worried about the effects of sudden power loss on antimatter containment... If the Whale Probe somehow "depowered" all antimatter, and then restored its potency, then everything is all right. But that process in itself sounds a bit too fantastic to my tastes. (Yes, even when I'm explicitly told to accept it in a couple of TOS episodes.)

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, that would be problematic for a couple of reasons. First, everything around the probe would go boom ( bad), worse , a resourceful enemy wouldnt need to 'attack' a ship,as long as it finds a way to disable magnetic containment and boom,death from antimatter anihilation.

 

[darkshadow0001]

No time passed in the 23rd century while Our Heros were back in the 20th. They returned the exact minute they left.

Actually they arrived just a few moments before they left. Remember when Admiral Cartwright said "get them back, get them back!" again towards the end of the film?

 

[RoJoHen]

Life support may have gone off-line, but it's not like the Probe opened all the doors and vented the atmosphere. There was plenty of oxygen and residual heat left for people survive the 5 minutes it took the whales to talk to the Probe.

 

[Timo]

And even antimatter containment might have been built to be fairly stable without constant input of power. We don't know what the Probe did to the ships, exactly, other than it was reversible and thus probably not similar to an EMP that fries circuits. Perhaps it didn't suck out the sort of power that guarded the antimatter, just as it didn't suck out the sort of power that keeps human body chemistry going.

Actually, it seems there were two different kinds of effect there, unless the "weapon" of the Probe had truly immense range. One would deprive the distant starships of power once and for all, leaving them helpless even after the Probe had long since departed. Another would shut down systems in Earth's vicinity in a reversible manner.

Perhaps a ship's systems would get fried if it got really close to the Probe, like the Saratoga did, but not otherwise? Perhaps the reversible effect was generated by the communications sphere only when the Probe wanted to talk with the local cetaceans, but not when the Probe traveled in deep space? All sorts of possibilities and possible combinations there...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Obi Wana Jones]

After Dory spoke whale, she an Nemo were able to reach Australia to search for Nemo.

Oh, wait, wrong movie!

 

[RoJoHen]

^I also think Nemo searching for Nemo would be a little confusing.

 

[ClayinCA]

Yes indeed! (Too bad, though - it would've been a good joke...!)

 

[Basill]

And even antimatter containment might have been built to be fairly stable without constant input of power. We don't know what the Probe did to the ships, exactly, other than it was reversible and thus probably not similar to an EMP that fries circuits. Perhaps it didn't suck out the sort of power that guarded the antimatter, just as it didn't suck out the sort of power that keeps human body chemistry going.

Actually, it seems there were two different kinds of effect there, unless the "weapon" of the Probe had truly immense range. One would deprive the distant starships of power once and for all, leaving them helpless even after the Probe had long since departed. Another would shut down systems in Earth's vicinity in a reversible manner.

Perhaps a ship's systems would get fried if it got really close to the Probe, like the Saratoga did, but not otherwise? Perhaps the reversible effect was generated by the communications sphere only when the Probe wanted to talk with the local cetaceans, but not when the Probe traveled in deep space? All sorts of possibilities and possible combinations there...

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, the Spacedock and its ships were definitely reversible, as was the entirety of the Earth's systems. But the probe left a trail of disabled Starfleet and Klingon vessels in its wake. Not sure if this was just an oversight in the plot or what. I too had wondered if proximity may have played a role in the fried circuits. Saratoga looked to be mighty close as the Probe passed by, and she was the only one we saw in "sizzle-mode." Of course Spacedock was not too far away either as the Probe approaced Earth. There's no way to know how close the other ships got to the probe, but several still had subspace communications after the Probe left them adrift; specifically the Yorktown and the Shepard.

The Saratoga's science officer mentioned that the wave was impacting on all the ship's systems. Is it possible that a ship at full power helped augment the fry effect? The Space Dock and ships docked within had power but were all relatively inactive compared the fully operational vessels sent to investigate the Probe. Knowing the Klingons, their ships probably engaged the beast. Perhaps when dealing with this Probe's emissions, the greater the power output of your ship, the greater the feedback and thus more damage to ship's systems.

Also, as Timo noted, maybe in deep space the Probe was actively communicating with all ships as it passed, hence the impacting fry wave, but by the time it arrived at Earth it was simply concentrating all that energy on the destination planet's surface for which it had traveled all that distance, and the power interruptions experienced at Earth were just byproduct of that effect.

As for the antimatter containment, I've always assumed there might be some sort of back up magnetic containment built into the very nature of the storage bottles. Otherwise, Starfleet service would be a crapshoot at best.