Spring Anime 2010
- Thread starter firehawk12
- Start date
I usually like them but not as much as some other people seem to. The only ones worth writing home about in my opinion were Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind because they were a bit darker in tone.
I don't usually like many family or kid oriented things because they just aren't complex enough for me. In addition there's the whole "safety net" issue which makes them predictable. Nobody dies, certain subjects are never addressed, the dialogue is dumbed down, etc.
On an unrelated note the Tsubasa Chronicle OVAs were recently licensed by Funimation. Now if they'll only finish up the XXXHolic franchise as well. Although with that, they're probabally waiting for the new OVA to finish.
I don't usually like many family or kid oriented things because they just aren't complex enough for me. In addition there's the whole "safety net" issue which makes them predictable. Nobody dies, certain subjects are never addressed, the dialogue is dumbed down, etc.
On an unrelated note the Tsubasa Chronicle OVAs were recently licensed by Funimation. Now if they'll only finish up the XXXHolic franchise as well. Although with that, they're probabally waiting for the new OVA to finish.
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It's funny, I have a copy of Mononoke and Porko Rosso but I've never watched them. No urge to do so I guess. 
Eric Sherman appeared on the ANN podcast to clarify his position. He was coming down on people who pirate R1 DVDs/dubs, not fansubbers.
Yeah, probably should have pointed that out to avoid the shitstorm... and hey, on that, I can agree with him.
Yeah, probably should have pointed that out to avoid the shitstorm... and hey, on that, I can agree with him.
Yeah, I also agree. There's really no need to pirate R1 stuff when Netflix is so cheap and they have tons of anime. So far I've seen all of Flag through them and am working on Blade of the Immortal right now. The only thing that could maybe possibly justify pirating a domestic release is if the title in question was long out of print and not carried by any stores or websites anymore. In which case, the title's license has probably expired or the company that put out is 6 feet under, resulting in the same thing. Still it's often not really an excuse with websites like Half.com and Amazon Marketplace, where you can sometimes find the relic you're looking for...well after you weed out all the bootlegs first.... 
I know I've experienced that situation where I wanted to watch a series or film but couldn't find it at the usual places I shop. Usually, I just was able to find it used though, even if I had to pay a bit more than it was worth.
I know I've experienced that situation where I wanted to watch a series or film but couldn't find it at the usual places I shop. Usually, I just was able to find it used though, even if I had to pay a bit more than it was worth.
And heck, lots of other stuff really, especially with the contraction that has happened in the industry.
It's probably easier to collect anime now, but that's mostly because it's largely Funimation and several niche pubs that don't need to sell big numbers to break even... although, I wonder if NISA isn't setting itself up for massive failure with Toradora and Persona, but that's another issue I guess.
Funny enough, on the podcast the dude revealed that Bandai was betting everything on Haruhi S2, the movie, and an unannounced title.
I also got the impression that people in the industry think dubbing is a key part of trying to "mainstream" anime in America, since people apparently don't like listening to foreigners or whatever. That just seems like a lost cause though.
Funny enough, on the podcast the dude revealed that Bandai was betting everything on Haruhi S2, the movie, and an unannounced title.
I also got the impression that people in the industry think dubbing is a key part of trying to "mainstream" anime in America, since people apparently don't like listening to foreigners or whatever. That just seems like a lost cause though.
That's actually pretty valid. Subtitles are a pain to read on TV and overlapping dialogue becomes confusing without color coding the subs, which can be a bit hard with ensemble cast shows. Plus people can have a hard time keeping up with both the onscreen action and the subs. However, the real problem with mainstreaming anime in America is that 1) there's practically none on basic cable, 2) what few shows are on cable either play at bad times or aren't very good, 3) it can be hard to find a show that doesn't have something that might irritate the target audience (tonal dissonance, excessive fan service, bad plot/characters, etc...), 4) anime studios pander to otaku (source: http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/600507/n/Suspended-Animation), and 5) DVD prices suck ass. You can get Breaking Bad season 1 off of Amazon.com for about $27 new, but Gundam 00 Season 1 Part 1 is about $33. One has 13 hour long episodes, the other has 8 or 9 half-hour long episodes and costs more. That's a massive disincentive to buy anime when there are plenty of places to get it for free online.
*coughEndofEvangelioncough*
Another would be Haibane Renmei. It's one of the best anime ever made in my opinion and I'd recommend it to anyone here, but trying to find it anywhere now would be a series pain in the ass due to Geneon dieing and nobody bothering to rescue it. The complete collection in my possession is now a collector's item. You could find it on Half.com but you'd be paying $117 for a 13 episode series. Consequently you'd still be getting shafted on the price whether you bought it new or now since Geneon was the master of overcharging.
Got into a discussion about moe at another board and someone linked a pretty interesting article:
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/articles/2009/Galbraith.html
You'll have to look up "affect" since it makes up a lot of his paper (even Wikipedia doesn't have a definition.), but I think it makes a lot of interesting points. The fujoshi section is probably the most illuminating and has this choice line:
Which explains K-On!! among other things.
Anyway, thought I'd share.
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/articles/2009/Galbraith.html
You'll have to look up "affect" since it makes up a lot of his paper (even Wikipedia doesn't have a definition.
), but I think it makes a lot of interesting points. The fujoshi section is probably the most illuminating and has this choice line:Which explains K-On!! among other things.
Anyway, thought I'd share.
Heh, I'm probably the only person in this thread who hasn't watched K-On. Of course I am a big fan of Kannon (2006), and the Clannad series though, which are sort of the same recycled moe themed type show Kyoto Animation keeps putting out so I think I know what you mean.
I can handle stuff like that, because it has depth and therefore some type of value, but there is such a thing as too much moe too. For instance, you'd never catch me watching something like A Little Snow Fairy Sugar.
I can handle stuff like that, because it has depth and therefore some type of value, but there is such a thing as too much moe too. For instance, you'd never catch me watching something like A Little Snow Fairy Sugar.
Are Kannon and Clannad those Key shows? It's strange because I think those are a different type of moe than the K-On fare... because there's no sexualization or sexuality exhibited whatsoever (via the lack of any male presence). At this point, they've only mentioned boys once in the show and that was just a misunderstanding.
Imagine if Haruhi featured an all (straight) female cast. They'd all have their silly adventures, but Mikaru's moeblobness suddenly takes a completely different form because it's not "attractive" to anyone in the room.
Imagine if Haruhi featured an all (straight) female cast. They'd all have their silly adventures, but Mikaru's moeblobness suddenly takes a completely different form because it's not "attractive" to anyone in the room.
Kannon and Clannad (at least the anime) are similarly pure, and don't sexualize the women much either even though there are guys. They're about making you feel all warm and fuzzy and occasionally temporarily depressed with cute girls doing cute things, and dealing with tragic pasts or events and moving on. These shows can make your laugh your butt off one minute and make this grown man cry the next. Kanon (2006) is particularly great and one my top favorites. I especially enjoyed Shiori's storyline in the show. Clannad and Clannad After Story were also worth watching but not as good.
I guess my stipulations for moe is that moe for moe's sake can't be the only reason to watch a show. It has to have some substance to the story and characters too or I'm out. A prime example is Hanamaru Kindergarten which I ended up dropping after a few episodes because of lack of anything I deemed interesting or worthwhile.
If talking about the more abstract applications of the word moe, in say...character disigns, for Instance, I have to say I don't really like them much. In the field of character disign I generally, prefer a more realistic approach to the rendering of the body, such as that taken in Madhouse works like Black Lagoon, Claymore, or Monster. The more exagerated the designs are the less they appeal to me.
I guess my stipulations for moe is that moe for moe's sake can't be the only reason to watch a show. It has to have some substance to the story and characters too or I'm out. A prime example is Hanamaru Kindergarten which I ended up dropping after a few episodes because of lack of anything I deemed interesting or worthwhile.
If talking about the more abstract applications of the word moe, in say...character disigns, for Instance, I have to say I don't really like them much. In the field of character disign I generally, prefer a more realistic approach to the rendering of the body, such as that taken in Madhouse works like Black Lagoon, Claymore, or Monster. The more exagerated the designs are the less they appeal to me.
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Just going from the Wikipedia entry on Clannad, it sounds like there's still a main character who will eventually hook up with one of the many girls around him? I don't know the characters at all, but I would imagine that any moe expressed by the female characters is to make them more appealing to the main character and thus justify a relationship between the two characters to the audience... which is why you have things like little sister moe and tsundere moe and whatnot.
(I'm not trying to say that Clannad is bad or anything, just that it represents an old kind of moe that's been supplanted by this fujoshi version of moe).
A show like K-On! and Hidamari Sketch and even MariMite doesn't really have any of that to deal with. There are hints of not-quite-there lesbian relationships, but the moe comes more from girls just hanging out rather than any necessary "attraction" trope (And certainly, there are shows that have thrown all girl settings for a loop - Girl's High being my favourite example by the very fact that it makes tampon jokes).
If you read the paper's section on fujoshi, the author recounts an episode with a few girls who essentially envision a seme/uke relationship between cars and the road they drive on, eventually coming to the conclusion that a specific interpretation of that relationship is moe. If someone can do "Car x Road" or "Road x Car" and find it moe, I don't think it matters who the characters are or even what they do to each other. Sex and angst is just a necessary contrivance meant to bring the moe of the pairing out.
I guess it's just weird - imagine in America someone trying to pitch a show about girls - and only girls - directly to boys/men without any overt sexualization. That just doesn't happen (and in fact, the joke is that men think all-female situations result in pillow fights and lesbian orgies - locker rooms, prisons, sleepovers, etc.).
Incidentally, I wouldn't really classify Hanamaru as particularly moe... probably because the "kids say the darndest things" type of comedy doesn't really strike me as cute... I just appreciated the parodies more than anything else.
(I'm not trying to say that Clannad is bad or anything, just that it represents an old kind of moe that's been supplanted by this fujoshi version of moe).
A show like K-On! and Hidamari Sketch and even MariMite doesn't really have any of that to deal with. There are hints of not-quite-there lesbian relationships, but the moe comes more from girls just hanging out rather than any necessary "attraction" trope (And certainly, there are shows that have thrown all girl settings for a loop - Girl's High being my favourite example by the very fact that it makes tampon jokes).
If you read the paper's section on fujoshi, the author recounts an episode with a few girls who essentially envision a seme/uke relationship between cars and the road they drive on, eventually coming to the conclusion that a specific interpretation of that relationship is moe. If someone can do "Car x Road" or "Road x Car" and find it moe, I don't think it matters who the characters are or even what they do to each other. Sex and angst is just a necessary contrivance meant to bring the moe of the pairing out.
I guess it's just weird - imagine in America someone trying to pitch a show about girls - and only girls - directly to boys/men without any overt sexualization. That just doesn't happen (and in fact, the joke is that men think all-female situations result in pillow fights and lesbian orgies - locker rooms, prisons, sleepovers, etc.
).Incidentally, I wouldn't really classify Hanamaru as particularly moe... probably because the "kids say the darndest things" type of comedy doesn't really strike me as cute... I just appreciated the parodies more than anything else.
Well, what's interesting about Clannad is that, while it follows the generic harm model, it's actually about the girls. The guy is just there to push the story. Furthermore, while most of the girls inherit a cliché moe characteristic, they're often act in the complete opposite expected manner. It's what makes the first series so brilliant.
The second series, however, takes a drastic turn and focuses mostly on the male lead and his interaction with one specific girl, who, interestingly enough, isn't even introduced until half-way through the series. Again, though, she is uniquely characterized in that, while she's certainly moe, she is in such a way that you'd never expect or has ever really been done before. And, as such, again flips all the moe stereotypes on their heads.
Unfortunately, this is all killed by one of the worst (and tasteless) reset buttons I've ever seen--in Western TV, anime, or otherwise.
After Story's ending is huge copout I'd agree. Still it's better than the ultra depressing slit-your-wrists-after-watching ending it would have been without the reset. Kobayashimaru.
There is only one true pairing in the Clannad series. Two of the other options on the game got extra alternate universe episodes though. That still leaves two or three unexplored options, however.
Nagisa is the main female protagonist of the anime. The first series gives us an extra where Tomoyo has gone with Tomoya and After Story has an extra where Tomoyo dates Ryo but ends up falling for her twin sister Kyo instead. So the anime hasn't seen any romantic outcomes for Ryo (which would be the same as Kyo's story only he chose her), Kotomi, and Fuka. Kotomi and Fuka's stories were in the first series though, minus the romance, so any exploration of that would probably be a retread.
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I guess I just find it interesting that the new thing is girls only shows that depend on a male audience but are not creepy (and thus allow for a female audience as well). I think I've been confused about how to describe K-On, since it's not moe in the traditional sense even though it deploys traditional moe characterization, so this fujoshi idea is a funny one that fits.
Clannad sounds like To Heart 2 (don't ask), in so much as the male is just there to facilitate stories about the females that he randomly meets at school. But even though nothing happens in that show (open harem, super nice guy, et al), the male presence is enough to change the whole dynamic of the show. At least without the guy, the girls wouldn't even have a reason to meet each other.
I'm sure I'll end up watching Clannad eventually, but Angel Beats is enough Key for the next little while anyway.
Clannad sounds like To Heart 2 (don't ask
), in so much as the male is just there to facilitate stories about the females that he randomly meets at school. But even though nothing happens in that show (open harem, super nice guy, et al), the male presence is enough to change the whole dynamic of the show. At least without the guy, the girls wouldn't even have a reason to meet each other. I'm sure I'll end up watching Clannad eventually, but Angel Beats is enough Key for the next little while anyway.
I guess I just find it interesting that the new thing is girls only shows that depend on a male audience but are not creepy (and thus allow for a female audience as well). I think I've been confused about how to describe K-On, since it's not moe in the traditional sense even though it deploys traditional moe characterization, so this fujoshi idea is a funny one that fits.
Clannad sounds like To Heart 2 (don't ask), in so much as the male is just there to facilitate stories about the females that he randomly meets at school. But even though nothing happens in that show (open harem, super nice guy, et al), the male presence is enough to change the whole dynamic of the show. At least without the guy, the girls wouldn't even have a reason to meet each other.
I'm sure I'll end up watching Clannad eventually, but Angel Beats is enough Key for the next little while anyway.
Clannad sounds like To Heart 2 (don't ask
), in so much as the male is just there to facilitate stories about the females that he randomly meets at school. But even though nothing happens in that show (open harem, super nice guy, et al), the male presence is enough to change the whole dynamic of the show. At least without the guy, the girls wouldn't even have a reason to meet each other. I'm sure I'll end up watching Clannad eventually, but Angel Beats is enough Key for the next little while anyway.
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