The model is just a shade lighter than the final ship. And a lot of her weapons are pop-out, the model doesn't show all that. You can't really get the full evil vibe off the little version.
*Spoilers* U.S.S. Franklin Design?
- Thread starter Devon
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The model is just a shade lighter than the final ship. And a lot of her weapons are pop-out, the model doesn't show all that. You can't really get the full evil vibe off the little version.
Just pointing out, if they are going by X-Men levels of loose continuity, that Enterprise NX-01 model on Admiral Marcus' desk won't matter. Anyone remember the 6' black version of Trask in X-Men: Last Stand?
That said, they're well aware of the kind of psychotic outbursts such continuity ignoring would cause. It was just a thought.
That said, they're well aware of the kind of psychotic outbursts such continuity ignoring would cause. It was just a thought.
Hmmm... my take on it, is that the Franklin is the next step on from the NX-01 - still predating the USS Kelvin and Enterprise, but following on from Archer's NX-01.
Whatever the USS Franklin is, and where she sits in the pantheon, I'm keen to see some form of diecast version be made!
Whatever the USS Franklin is, and where she sits in the pantheon, I'm keen to see some form of diecast version be made!
I don't see a pressing need to fit the Franklin onto any sort of starship history timeline. She's such a tiny thing, seemingly smaller than NX-01, even - she would be a side note rather than a missing link, something parallel to the "actual" ships rather than falling in between them.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
It's entirely possible the Vengeance was a failed proposal to Starfleet by Marcus's engineers. Marcus could have gone to the SF leadership, proposed the design, got it rejected, then secretly built it anyway. In that case, the little model is fine because the design itself isn't a secret, just the fact that it got built.
Even the fact that it got built is only a secret from Jim Kirk. Half of Starfleet might have known - it's not something you can build in the basement of a London library, after all. It's just the part where Marcus reserved the right to make private use of one of these beasts, with a mercenary crew, that would surprise basically all the rest of Starfleet.
Note that Marcus wanted his war with the Klingons right there and then. And he was willing and eager to have the Enterprise, the biggest and newest starship so far seen, destroyed as part of the process and thus unavailable for the actual fighting of the war. So for all we know, he already had sixteen of these dreadnoughts finished and ready for action...
Timo Saloniemi
Note that Marcus wanted his war with the Klingons right there and then. And he was willing and eager to have the Enterprise, the biggest and newest starship so far seen, destroyed as part of the process and thus unavailable for the actual fighting of the war. So for all we know, he already had sixteen of these dreadnoughts finished and ready for action...
Timo Saloniemi
I imagine it would be quite easy to hide, space is pretty freaking big.
But also densely populated. It's trivial for Scotty to take a shuttle on a joyride; does Marcus really wish to blow up all those dozens of other random stumblers-upon and then claim the light of Venus reflected off a weather balloon did it all?
Hiding a dockyard from an indifferent teenager in downtown New Berlin can arguably work. Hiding a dockyard inside Sol system from the rest of Starfleet? Those guys un-hide stuff for a living! Marcus must be doing the "This installation is off limits and you don't need to know why" routine rather than the "What installation? There is no installation!" thing, as is well within his powers as the Big Boss.
Timo Saloniemi
Hiding a dockyard from an indifferent teenager in downtown New Berlin can arguably work. Hiding a dockyard inside Sol system from the rest of Starfleet? Those guys un-hide stuff for a living! Marcus must be doing the "This installation is off limits and you don't need to know why" routine rather than the "What installation? There is no installation!" thing, as is well within his powers as the Big Boss.
Timo Saloniemi
What Jupiter base?
Jupiter Station, sorry. It's been mentioned being around for a long time, in most of the TNG+ series, we finally see it in Voyager, it's obviously been expanded since it started but there's a very large, very important starbase around Jupiter.
And it doesn't notice the construction of a *massive* shipyard (about 1.8 times the size of Vengeance to contain her at least) and a huge warp signature powering up when the base opens to let her out. Over years of time?
The Mars Defense Perimeter doesn't detect the flurry of smaller regular ships and materials that stop abruptly at Jupiter?
Starfleet are fucking idiots.
I still think space is much bigger than we give it credit for (especially in Star Trek) and if you aren't looking for something, odds are you're not going to find it. Plus, we know that if you hide something near the poles of a planet, it is much harder to detect in the Star Trek universe.
So I can easily buy no one found the Vengeance spacedock.
Jupiter Station is covered in large arrays, it would have sensor power to pick up anything within several million miles, Vengeance station was being built around one of the moons. The orbital path of both would have brought them close enough together for a starships sensors to have a positive lock.
When the shipyard was finished? sure they could put dampers all over it, but the construction would have drawn some attention, and the hundreds of tiny craft needed to do it.
It was just one of the weaker elements of the script needing Scotty off the Enterprise and having the yard within shuttle distance.
When the shipyard was finished? sure they could put dampers all over it, but the construction would have drawn some attention, and the hundreds of tiny craft needed to do it.
It was just one of the weaker elements of the script needing Scotty off the Enterprise and having the yard within shuttle distance.
We know of a number of 'secret' US military bases which do exotic work (Area 51 the most commonly known one) but we have no idea what is actually taking place within them. I think that is great- we need to have a few secrets to surprise the bad guys with. When Jimmy Carter announced the existence of the Stealth Fighter in a news conference to prove we had some serious projects in the works different powers started to work on ways to detect it. IIRC the Japanese developed a radar system which did not track the plane but the turbulence in the air as it flew. The technology works but was not practical to deploy- to elaborate and expensive to do more than a point defense.
Let Starfleet have some special off limits bases where they can develop new ships and technologies- if something very big does suddenly warp out system just tell the picket boys to relax, it was on a need to know basis. What if Marcus was right about the Klingons but wrong about the timing? The Vengeance would be quite a surprise to an incoming war fleet...
Nobody has ever built a warship in secrecy - in the sense of the fact of building being a secret. Sure, ships (especially submarines) have been built in a fashion that has prevented the enemy from getting a look at them during construction; the Imperial Japanese Navy even erected a giant curtain to hide the work done on the massive Musashi. But the fact that ships were being constructed, and the location in which this took place, was never in any question.
A starship must be above Starfleet's detection threshold if there is to be any sort of defense of Earth...
Timo Saloniemi
A starship must be above Starfleet's detection threshold if there is to be any sort of defense of Earth...
Timo Saloniemi
No, I don't either - but simply for the fact of what the Franklin looks like, and harkens to - and where it could possibly fall, in terms of Federation design evolution.
Whether it came before, after, or during the tennure of the NX-01 is not really significant - and no, it doesn't need to be anything other than a starship that shares characteristics of the NX-01.
Considering the NX-01 is seen on Marcus's desk in STID, it stands to reason that there were other similar vessels (such as the Franklin) around.
I was watching a video about the Eaglemoss NV Intrepid on YouTube, and the guy(Irishtrekker?) was flipping through the book, and I noticed one of the concepts in there had some similarities to the Franklin. Not really implying anything. Just thought it was interesting.
I've always found the donut saucer designs silly, but why especially would you waste so much usable volume on a cut-out on such a tiny ship? At least with the Vengeance the thing is massive so there's still plenty of room. Maybe the outer ring was originally intended to be just for sensors and other equipment, but somehow I think if it had been chosen it would have been a habitable section.
Anyway, that's getting away from your point. Yeah, it does bear some resemblance to the Franklin design. Good eye. I had forgotten about that concept art.
Anyway, that's getting away from your point. Yeah, it does bear some resemblance to the Franklin design. Good eye. I had forgotten about that concept art.
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