*Spoilers* U.S.S. Franklin Design?

[wayoung]

I thought we'd known that since episodes like "The Doomsday Machine" and "The Changeling" ended with Kirk, Spock and McCoy sharing a joke on the bridge right after billions and billions of deaths.

The Doomsday Machine ended on a sadish note didn't it? With Kirk saying he'd log Decker as KIA and that he hoped there weren't any more of the machines while acknowledging the irony of using one wmd to destroy another?

It is one of the episodes that actually explores PTSD with Deckers character suffering from it. In fact, if you think about it, starship commanders mentally destroyed by the trauma of their jobs comes up a few times in TOS.

The Changling is a good example of Trek's blasé attitude towards mass death and destruction. It's excusable in that it was a 60's show following a by the numbers 60's episodic format, although there is an underlying depression in Kirk's character as discussed in other threads.

That's actually a great point about members of the crew remaining at Yorktown.

Remember that we're supposed to be dealing with an advanced society that, I imagine, has dealt with the nature of depression and trauma quite extensively. One of Roddenberry's precepts for TNG was that humans no longer mourn death, accepting it as a natural part of life.

It seems like neuroscience and psychology as they exist now would advance to a point of treating serious trauma without necessarily blocking or inhibiting normal emotions.

An idea, which while valid, is contradicted by the multiple films and series' themselves which all have depicted traumatized and "changed" individuals from the aforementioned Decker to Garth to Nog to Nero and many others, as well as the regularity of psychiatrists, psychologists, and counsellors shown on the multiple series which present no major leaps in psychological treatment.

The most effective counselling we saw in all 6 series and 14 movie's was a holographic lounge singer, and it was still purely counselling not psychiatry.

 

[Markonian]

What's likely to happen to the Franklin?
Museum piece?

 

[F. King Daniel]

What's likely to happen to the Franklin?
Museum piece?

Interesting question. It's an interesting piece of history, but with her captain freshly disgraced I'm not so sure they'd want to make a museum of her (like I believe they did the NX-01)

 

[Markonian]

Maybe they showcase it at Yorktown? Only 3 crewmembers were disgraced. The ship itself was included in a heroic act.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Cadet training vessel, maybe.

 

[starburst]

I would imagine she took too much damage to be returned to any sort of service... Possible she could have been put somewhere as a museum (after all we do have museum pieces from some pretty nasty parts of history today including ships) though she would need alot of work to make her safe even if the museum was in a liveable environment. I would think possibly scrap (which would be a shame in alot of ways).

 

[Markonian]

Definitely not scrap!

In the novels, Starfleet always put recovered wrecks into the Smithsonian when possible. They did so with the NCC-1764, the NX-02, and tried with the NX-07.

 

[drt]

The only references I know of for the Kelvin Enterprise crew compliment is 400 from the non-final draft of the ST'09 script floating about the net, and 1100 from the old "Experience the Enterprise" holographic website thingie.

Either more groups were beamed up between the ones we saw (and squished into the cargo section like sardines) or Kirk lost the vast majority of his crew.

There were quite a few lined up and going underground after first being captured. My assumption was that there were more than three groups beamed up. Fitting them comfortably into Franklin is probably another casualty of the ship's changing size during production.

With regard to Enterprise's complement, I get from Beyond the feeling that it's not as numerous as perhaps expected for the ship's ginormous size (or perhaps as mentioned above, they left anyone unneeded for a rescue mission behind), so maybe only a couple of hundred, therefore, the overall losses weren't that horrible (maybe a couple dozen, tops).

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Definitely not scrap!

In the novels, Starfleet always put recovered wrecks into the Smithsonian when possible. They did so with the NCC-1764, the NX-02, and tried with the NX-07.

The Defiant? How did they get it back from the MU?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Defiant? How did they get it back from the MU?

From a novel and comic (both incompatible with each other) written before "In a Mirror, Darkly" was made. Over in Treklit, we decided the Tholian's doorway encompasses more than one universe, and USS Defiants keep drifting back through into ours...

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

But never more than one at a time, right? Unlike the million Enterprise march in Parallels.

 

[Timo]

There were quite a few lined up and going underground after first being captured. My assumption was that there were more than three groups beamed up. Fitting them comfortably into Franklin is probably another casualty of the ship's changing size during production.

The decisive logistics element here would be time. We saw how long it took between beam-outs, and we got something of an idea about how long the overall fight took (by following Jaylah's movements across the well-defined sets), and there just isn't time for all that many 20-person sorties there. Scotty might have saved a couple of hundred, but certainly nowhere near the thousands implied in a direct scale-up of TOSKirk's 430-person ship to NuKirk's giant.

So either there were major casualties, or NuKirk's ship was more sparsely crewed than might meet the eye. The sort of physical damage the ship took would make massive casualties rather likely, even without figuring in the fight against the boarders. Although we might figure in the great skill and experience Krall's forces had in capturing live slaves. But we could also figure in the great cruelty Krall later applied on his captives, still giving a final number of survivors low enough to be manageable by Scotty's transporting efforts.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[drt]

So either there were major casualties, or NuKirk's ship was more sparsely crewed than might meet the eye. The sort of physical damage the ship took would make massive casualties rather likely, even without figuring in the fight against the boarders.

I think for her size, nu1701 is more sparsely crewed than what we'd become accustomed to with previous Trek shows, she seems to have way more spaces filled with big machinery and little crew.

Also, as has been mentioned before, they may have intentionally left behind a big portion of the sciences and other crew not needed for what seemed to be intended as a quick rescue mission.

 

[gerbil]

I'm guessing the NuPrise doesn't have a proportionally scaled crew size. There's gotta be a critical mass of personnel, so to speak.

 

[Markonian]

So, about Franklin models.

The 1st 1 was the glass-topper given out in US cinemas, right?
Then there's the trio of ST:BEY ships with the US Blu-Ray release.
In the UK, we get a Franklin with the Blu-Ray (due out end of November).
We know QMx produces a highly detailed prototype. Probably the largest model there'll be.
And finally, Eaglemoss will produce a model...at some point.

At least, this time we don't have to wait years and years to get a model (remember when you could get the Kelvin only from Burger King...?).

 

[gerbil]

The QMx model is fantastic. I highly recommend picking one up if that's still an option.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

You guys in the US I am green with jealousy...... we can't get much stuff like that here.

Even the Bandai NX01 which came out years ago was a bit prohibitive given shipping costs and that was a lovely model. Not much trek stuff here except for original movie series ships. At least in my regular brick and mortar stores that I go to..

 

[Markonian]

Try Amazon and eBay. They were my primary sources for Trek models when I lived in Germany.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Try Amazon and eBay. They were my primary sources for Trek models when I lived in Germany.

I have but the killer is shipping costs..... for what I want it's not economical.

 

[jamestyler]

I have but the killer is shipping costs..... for what I want it's not economical.

Thats one of the problems I have and it's came up quite a few times with members of a club I'm involved in.

The new QMX pins are another one thats just not logical for spending. $10 for the pin, $48 for the cheapest shipping option. I've asked why - as an eBay store has them with a $12 price tag - and other stuff I've got in the past from QMX never came with that shipping price (mostly pins and my wedding ring).

It's a pain in the arse. All the good stuff is in the US and costs 5-6 times the cost to ship it most of the time.