I thought in the Alternate universe of these movies, Enterprise was the only series to remain unchanged as far as continuity and history?
*Spoilers* U.S.S. Franklin Design?
- Thread starter Devon
- Start date
I thought in the Alternate universe of these movies, Enterprise was the only series to remain unchanged as far as continuity and history?
Compromised by the swarm? A relatively small hole allows for a 100 year old Federation starship to burst through a solid structure in one piece? It may have looked cool but that was utterly ridiculous.
I believe the Swarm were already hitting the door as a group (before Krall gets through). The door had its integrity compromised. Much like the Enterprise, it was a death by a thousand cuts.
It was the dumbest moment in all three films so far, if not all thirteen. It looked fantastic and was quite a spectacle, but was also a real facepalm moment.
Umm, what is wrong with a starship flying through walls and mountains? That's exactly what they must be capable of doing, or else they couldn't fly through interstellar dust at speeds a zillion times higher.
The movie just gets it right in a visual first, with the ships none the worse for the wear after piercing solid objects unless one of the following applies:
1) Shields or other hull protection measures are down.
2) The solid object itself is a starship or something comparable.
Timo Saloniemi
The movie just gets it right in a visual first, with the ships none the worse for the wear after piercing solid objects unless one of the following applies:
1) Shields or other hull protection measures are down.
2) The solid object itself is a starship or something comparable.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm sure the Franklin suffered severely for its journey through the Yorktown door. It was definitely a one-way trip.
But didn't he and Keenser go to reroute power to the polarization? I seem to remember him saying he was going to do that.
Dumber than the red matter malarkey from ST09? Those doors, even before the swarm attack, were likely never designed to be fortified like Fort Knox. They only needed to be sturdy enough to close and keep the entry tunnel contained. I'm pretty sure Starfleet never intended those doors to withstand the kinetic energy of a ship crashing through them, as that would be a highly unlikely and improbable situation.
Especially not a hostile ship forcing its way through. Perhaps in an emergency but they seemed to have drones to prepare for that sort of situation.
YES! It was glorious. Well, maybe not glorious but a huge amount of fun! I'll take ruining a swarm and smashing through a half broken door to Sabotage over Worf reluctantly singing a musical piece any day of the week!
The divergence point is 2233, which is decades after ENT took place, so yes, that's right.
That the Franklin was able to smash through the door didn't bother me, but I would have liked to see it fire first to try and soften them up before the smash. It was a fantastic visual and I loved the notion of the waterways on Yorktown being used as insulation for the hard vacuum of the docking tubes. It made for a really spectacular 'landing' for the Franklin and also subverted my expectation that the Franklin crashed on a planet based on some of those spy shots last year.
Overall, the Franklin looked spectacular on screen and I would have liked to see her survive the encounter with the Swarm.
Overall, the Franklin looked spectacular on screen and I would have liked to see her survive the encounter with the Swarm.
The divergence point was 2233, long after Enterprise.
According to Simon Pegg:
With the Kelvin timeline, we are not entirely beholden to existing canon, this is an alternate reality and, as such is full of new and alternate possibilities. “BUT WAIT!” I hear you brilliant and beautiful super Trekkies cry, “Canon tells us, Hikaru Sulu was born before the Kelvin incident, so how could his fundamental humanity be altered? Well, the explanation comes down to something very Star Treky; theoretical, quantum physics and the less than simple fact that time is not linear. Sure, we experience time as a contiguous series of cascading events but perception and reality aren’t always the same thing. Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09, it can mutate and subvert, it is a playground for the new and the progressive and I know in my heart, that Gene Roddenberry would be proud of us for keeping his ideals alive. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, this was his dream, that is our dream, it should be everybody’s.
Makes sense even without getting too timey-wimey, because Kirk Prime had the single fattest file on record for violations of the Temporal Prime Directive as per "Trials And Tribble-ations" (DS9)—many of which we never saw onscreen, so we have no way of knowing how far back his influence on the Prime Timeline goes (perhaps all the way to the Big Bang, for all we know). Change Kirk's whole life from birth, and you potentially change the circumstances and outcome of each and every one of those. Add in everyone else, including the fellows from the future who were perpetrating the Temporal Cold War in ENT, and take into account the Butterfly Effect, and all bets are basically off as far as what must be the same.
^ I am well aware of what Simon Pegg said, but that's only a possible explanation for what has happened. (Another is that Nero and Spock Prime emerged into an alternate universe that was already different.)
In any case, there was nothing in Beyond that would necessarily support Pegg's view, and until it does make it into a film, then effectively it doesn't exist. The sole canon explanation (supported by dialogue from ST09) is that the divergence occurred only AFTER 2233 - and until we see proof to the contrary, then that is what will be the case.
In any case, there was nothing in Beyond that would necessarily support Pegg's view, and until it does make it into a film, then effectively it doesn't exist. The sole canon explanation (supported by dialogue from ST09) is that the divergence occurred only AFTER 2233 - and until we see proof to the contrary, then that is what will be the case.
The point is it absolutely can NOT be taken for granted that ENT or anything else pre-2233 remains exactly the same in the Kelvin Timeline. Each and every historical datapoint must be re-confirmed individually. This "alternate reality" is, well, alternate.
I hate to sound dense, but did you read what I just said? Pegg's explanation is only a possible interpretation of what has happened. It doesn't necessarily HAVE to be the case. He's not retaining creative control over future Trek films - he's not even writing ST04 - so does it really matter, in the grand scheme of things, WHAT he thinks?
I mean, I don't question Pegg's qualifications as a Trek fan, and I respect his attention to detail, but the fact remains - his explanation for the differences between the timelines IS NOT BINDING. Sure, he wrote Beyond and plays Scotty, but let's not put him on a pedestal. If some fans want to accept Pegg's comments in their head-continuity, then that is their right, but his viewpoint is no more binding on Trek canon than OURS would be.
In the end, there's absolutely no reason to assume anything other than the fact that the divergence occurred only in 2233 - until a future film says otherwise. As of now, that has not happened.
Last edited:
What @Mr. Laser Beam said. It is an explanation, not hard fact.
If the producers come out and confirm what he said, then yes it is. But until then its just speculation.
If the producers come out and confirm what he said, then yes it is. But until then its just speculation.
Similar threads
