SPOILERS: Jason Isaacs out??

[PicardSpeedo]

Captain Lorca's 'big secret' has been revealed, and with the character vilified, dead and vaporized, and Chrispher Pike in command of Discovery, it seems like Jason Isaacs has a perfect exit opportunity.

Isaacs was reticent from beginning about playing Captain Lorca (and to a certain degree, about the Star Trek franchise in general). By his own admission, he had to be coerced into accepting the role through promises of creative control over his character - in particular, he wanted his character to have a 'big secret' to motivate him.

With that secret now having run its course, and Isaacs not known for playing 'nice guy' parts, as well as being very lukewarm about the Lorca role, are we perhaps seeing the seeds being sewn for a replacement of Discovery's captain? The fact that Anson Mount, a well-respected and marketable actor, has been brought in to fill the void left by Isaacs seems to suggest that the showrunners are looking for a new long-term relationship.

DISCLAIMER: I know that Jason Isaacs is on the casting sheet for Season 2. This doesn't mean that he's going to feature heavily - it could be little more than flashback scenes.

What do you think?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

IIRC, the plan was always to have Isaacs only for the first season. He's not "out" for the second season, because he was never supposed to be IN it.

This does not rule out a future appearance (as ReguLorca), of course.

And Isaacs has never expressed any reluctance to play Lorca - by all indications, he greatly enjoyed it, and still considers himself part of the DSC "family" (you'll notice that he still attends conventions and is often seen in photos with the rest of the cast). So it's not like he got fed up and quit. He played the role for exactly the length of time he was contracted to.

As for Anson Mount, obviously he can't be permanently joining the cast, because Pike is supposed to be on the Enterprise. This is a single story arc, with a beginning and end - after it's over, Pike returns to the 1701. So whoever ends up in permanent command of the Discovery (I'm holding out hope it's Saru), it can't and won't be Pike.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I am sure he will be back for an episode or two down the line as Prime Lorca. Otherwise, I didn't expect him to return. He kinda fell into a sun after being stabbed.

 

[Jesse1066]

Maybe I haven't paid enough attention, but I never got the impression that Isaacs was "lukewarm about the Lorca role." In any case, it's pretty clear now that he was a one season character, just like Ned Stark. He might return in some form, and he might not. Either way his time as a main character has ended, as it was going to from the day he was cast.

 

[Phoenix219]

We could get some crazy fanwanky idea to get him back.... like he wasn't vaporized, but was teleported into the source of the great barrier/god barrier via the spore network (either, both) and comes out supercharged and able to walk through dimensional barrier with Mitchell-esque abilities. The twist was so comic booky to begin with, why not just go all the way?

 

[Gepard]

I am sure he will be back for an episode or two down the line as Prime Lorca. Otherwise, I didn't expect him to return. He kinda fell into a sun after being stabbed.

Yeah, my reaction to reading the thread title was, "wait, there's people who think that he's not out?" It seemed pretty obvious that outing Lorca as MU impostor and then killing him was a way to avoid having Issacs a regular past the first season.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We could get some crazy fanwanky idea to get him back.... like he wasn't vaporized, but was teleported into the source of the great barrier/god barrier via the spore network (either, both) and comes out supercharged and able to walk through dimensional barrier with Mitchell-esque abilities. The twist was so comic booky to begin with, why not just go all the way?

It'd be much easier to have him simply play Lorca Prime. AFAIK, Isaacs has said he'd gladly do it. He's even tweeted #FindPrimeLorca on occasion!

I'm not exactly a hundred percent in love with the thought of revisiting the MU anytime soon, but if there's anyone who can survive alone there, Lorca would be it. And it'd be interesting to see how different from MU Lorca he is.

Especially if DSC's writers keep up with the novels (which they seem to have been doing a lot of):

Spoiler: Drastic Measures

Most of the novel Drastic Measures deals with a younger Lorca Prime, then a Lieutenant Commander, during the time of the Tarsus IV massacre (Lorca is in charge of a Starfleet monitoring outpost on Tarsus and tries to help in the aftermath of the disaster). At the very end of the novel, there's a flash-forward to DSC's present, where Lorca Prime is being held in a secure prison, somewhere in the MU. We don't know who's holding him, though.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

Thanks for the replies - this fits with what I suspected.

Regarding recitence, that impression comes from this:

"Isaacs talked about how he “just loved” the original Star Trek when he was young and “worshiped” Captain Kirk, who he saw as a role model on how to be a man. Which is why, he said, he was reluctant to take the part of Lorca when he was first approached. He was concerned that he could only be a “pale copy” of what had come before. However, he became more intrigued by the show when he learned it would be serialized and would deal with “headline” and “hot topic issues.” He was also attracted to the idea that the show would star Sonequa Martin-Green, who he admired from The Walking Dead."

The same article goes on to talk about how he wouldn't commit until he was assured creative control via 'a big secret' for his character.

 

[Phoenix219]

The only "Prime Lorca is still alive" story idea that could work, IMO, would be that he has been the prisoner of an in-hiding Mirror Burnham.


So the twist was ISAACS idea??

 

[The Wormhole]

The same article goes on to talk about how he wouldn't commit until he was assured creative control via 'a big secret' for his character.

That article sounds like horseshit. It's well established fact that Fuller thought up Lorca's "big secret" before Isaacs was even cast, and indeed, Isaacs didn't even learn of it until his first meeting after the contract was signed.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

The only "Prime Lorca is still alive" story idea that could work, IMO, would be that he has been the prisoner of an in-hiding Mirror Burnham.

So the twist was ISAACS idea??

Seems to have been.

That article sounds like horseshit. It's well established fact that Fuller thought up Lorca's "big secret" before Isaacs was even cast, and indeed, Isaacs didn't even learn of it until his first meeting after the contract was signed.

It's not horse shit unless Isaacs himself is lying about it: https://trekmovie.com/2018/08/02/stlv18-jason-isaacs-talks-canon-controversy-space-wedgies-and-why-he-joined-star-trek-discovery

 

[The Wormhole]

Try to learn how to format posts. The way you got that set up is just confusing.

Anyway, your link says nothing about Isaacs having "creative control" over the character. He wanted to know what Lorca's secret was, he did not want to be the one who gave Lorca a secret, or the one who insisted he should have one.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Isaacs did have some input over how he was allowed to play Lorca, though. For example it was his own idea to have Lorca speak with a slight Southern accent (unlike on, say, TNG, where Marina Sirtis was not allowed to use her own accent).

 

[PicardSpeedo]

Try to learn how to format posts. The way you got that set up is just confusing.

Anyway, your link says nothing about Isaacs having "creative control" over the character. He wanted to know what Lorca's secret was, he did not want to be the one who gave Lorca a secret, or the one who insisted he should have one.

Try using less overt hostility in your replies. No one is attacking you.

"They said it’s either going to be that he wants to get back [to the Mirror Universe], or he wants to bring people here, or he wants to conquer it, or he wants to take her there, or he wants to partner up with her, or he wants to kill people. I said I can’t play that, that is a hundred different things. When you have a secret, you know what your secret is. If I am going to act it, I need to know what the secret is."

This ambiguity left Isaacs wary until subsequently (now former) executive producer Akiva Goldsman told him he could be “part of the discussion and part of evolving” the character."

= Isaacs politely asking "give me creative control of this, please."

 

[Phoenix219]

I still think the twist would have been better served by having him claim to want to take over the Terran Empire to bring Federation Style reforms to his universe, pitting burnham between a version of her old captain and her new captain. Especially with the gray area hanging over mirror Lorca where no one will know if he is lying or not about being good. Maybe Prime Lorca should have been really dark and damaged for a federation human, where mirror Lorca is optimistic and hopeful which makes it weird for a Terran. That they are basically both gray area damaged people that are basically identical and that is the only reason he was able to step into his counterparts shoes.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

I still think the twist would have been better served by having him claim to want to take over the Terran Empire to bring Federation Style reforms to his universe, pitting burnham between a version of her old captain and her new captain. Especially with the gray area hanging over mirror Lorca where no one will know if he is lying or not about being good. Maybe Prime Lorca should have been really dark and damaged for a federation human, where mirror Lorca is optimistic and hopeful which makes it weird for a Terran. That they are basically both gray area damage people that are basically identical and that is the only reason he was able to step into his counterparts shoes.

I like this.

 

[Mudd]

= Isaacs politely asking "give me creative control of this, please."

If that's so (and it's a dubious interpretation), then Goldsman teling Isaacs that he could be "part of evolving the character" was the producers polite way of blowing smoke up the actor's ass and telling him "no."

 

[Tuskin38]

I know that Jason Isaacs is on the casting sheet for Season 2.

Uh, no he isn't?

 

[The Wormhole]

Try using less overt hostility in your replies. No one is attacking you.

You got a problem with how I write my posts, notify a moderator, don't pretend to be one.

"They said it’s either going to be that he wants to get back [to the Mirror Universe], or he wants to bring people here, or he wants to conquer it, or he wants to take her there, or he wants to partner up with her, or he wants to kill people. I said I can’t play that, that is a hundred different things. When you have a secret, you know what your secret is. If I am going to act it, I need to know what the secret is."

This ambiguity left Isaacs wary until subsequently (now former) executive producer Akiva Goldsman told him he could be “part of the discussion and part of evolving” the character."

= Isaacs politely asking "give me creative control of this, please."

Not my interpretation at all.

 

[Phoenix219]

I like this.

Maybe some foreshadowing at the end when he is claiming power where he has the tantalus device and some implications of where things end up by TOS, maybe see him claim the first Captain's Woman.