(Spoilers)Destiny's Loose End?

[Silversmok3]

In the course of the story we detemine the fates of the Caeliar city ships that got thrown back in time.

All except one:The city ship that got tossed back to the Big Bang wasn't really accounted for ,besided having caused its own creation.

Will we see any re-occurance or further details on what happened to this city in future ST books,or can we assume they've found a swankier continuum to hang out at besides ours?

 

[David Mack]

They were the creators of the harnessed galaxy (a Kardashev-III civilization) seen near the end of Mere Mortals.

 

[Silversmok3]

They were the creators of the harnessed galaxy (a Kardashev-III civilization) seen near the end of Mere Mortals.

Ah.

Will we see any more of this high-tech civilization in future books?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd doubt it; how would anyone from the Milky Way get there?

And after harnessing an entire galaxy's energy and shielding themselves against something, what interest would they have in us?

 

[casey]

Not that I am a writer, mind you, but I can't even begin to imagine how you would write about something so completely beyond our level. Can we even comprehend what these people are like or of what they are capable? Or what kind of things would cause conflict for them?

Still, it would be interesting to see it explored.

 

[Christopher]

And after harnessing an entire galaxy's energy and shielding themselves against something, what interest would they have in us?

The "shielding" is how they harness the entire galaxy's energy. It's not to keep "something" out, it's to keep the energy contained rather than letting it go to waste by radiating out into empty space.

 

[casey]

And after harnessing an entire galaxy's energy and shielding themselves against something, what interest would they have in us?

The "shielding" is how they harness the entire galaxy's energy. It's not to keep "something" out, it's to keep the energy contained rather than letting it go to waste by radiating out into empty space.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. I had assumed it was just more of the fear of being discovered that their ancestors had, this makes perfect sense though.

 

[Christopher]

^^It's basic to the idea of the Kardashev scale. Its three levels are defined by complete control over the energy/resources of a planet (I), star (II), or galaxy (III). A Level II civilization would be one that enclosed its star in a Dyson Sphere to utilize 100 percent of its energy output. Level III is pretty much what Dave showed, a whole galaxy of stars in Dyson Spheres. Not sure what Level I would be, though.

It's actually a pretty artificial and unrealistic scale. I mean, we'll be colonizing other planets long before we find a way to capture all Earth's energy, and as ST shows, you don't need to put your star inside a Dyson Sphere in order to spread across the galaxy. So defining a civilization as planetary, stellar, or galactic based on complete control of the energy thereof doesn't really make sense. An effectively galactic-scale civilization could exist without even meeting the definition of Kardashev Level I, let alone II.

So I was too quick to dispute Allyn's interpretation. Especially in Trek-universe terms, encasing a galaxy in Dyson Spheres isn't really necessary for energy or territory alone. So the inherent isolationism of the Caeliar (and their descendants), their desire to hide from the rest of the universe, is probably a factor.

 

[casey]

^^It's basic to the idea of the Kardashev scale. Its three levels are defined by complete control over the energy/resources of a planet (I), star (II), or galaxy (III). A Level II civilization would be one that enclosed its star in a Dyson Sphere to utilize 100 percent of its energy output. Level III is pretty much what Dave showed, a whole galaxy of stars in Dyson Spheres. Not sure what Level I would be, though.

It's actually a pretty artificial and unrealistic scale. I mean, we'll be colonizing other planets long before we find a way to capture all Earth's energy, and as ST shows, you don't need to put your star inside a Dyson Sphere in order to spread across the galaxy. So defining a civilization as planetary, stellar, or galactic based on complete control of the energy thereof doesn't really make sense. An effectively galactic-scale civilization could exist without even meeting the definition of Kardashev Level I, let alone II.

So I was too quick to dispute Allyn's interpretation. Especially in Trek-universe terms, encasing a galaxy in Dyson Spheres isn't really necessary for energy or territory alone. So the inherent isolationism of the Caeliar (and their descendants), their desire to hide from the rest of the universe, is probably a factor.

I am only somewhat familiar with Kardashev scale, but my understanding was that they would have the capability to harness all of the energy of a star or galaxy or planet, but not necessarily that they would actually capture all of the energy released. I kind of pictured it more in terms of their ability to control stars, planets, and galaxies. Level one being able to terraform, create new worlds, change the weather etc. Level two able to alter stars and perhaps move them, and level three doing this with entire galaxies.

But the way you are saying it makes sense.
And while I am talking to you, let me say that if I could pick anyone to pick up this story line I would like it to be you. I am very impressed with how you handled the advanced races in Buried Age and if anyone could handle envisioning beings so far beyond us I think it would be you.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The "shielding" is how they harness the entire galaxy's energy. It's not to keep "something" out, it's to keep the energy contained rather than letting it go to waste by radiating out into empty space.

In saying that they were "keeping something out," I think I was drawing on two different ideas from the trilogy.

The first was Worf's reaction to that galaxy; if Worf is seriously creeped out by something, then it's probably seriously creepy.

I also recall a passage where Inyx said that there were some really nasty things out there in the universe, things the human mind couldn't comprehend.

Plus, Picard saw that galaxy as it was now. However, we know that that galaxy was thrown back to the very early universe, when things were a lot more wild. There's no telling what might have existed in the primitive years.

I've wondered if the Caeliar and the Borg would create a subspace tunnel and move to that galaxy. Then I wondered if the Caeliar of that galaxy would have accepted them. Finally, I doubted it; the Caeliar we know probably aren't advanced enough for those ancient extragalactic Caeliar. Snobs.

 

[nx1701g]

I'd doubt it; how would anyone from the Milky Way get there?

Well:

She [Ezri] frowned. "Seems like a waste of a perfectly good slipstream drive, if you ask me. Now that it's fully online, I was hoping we'd get to visit a new galaxy or something."

Riker gently chided her, "A new one? Do you mind if we finish exploring this one first?"

"Don't be silly, William," Dax teased, standing on tiptoes to plant a chaste kiss on his cheek. "That's what Starfleet has you for."

 

[Silversmok3]

I'd doubt it; how would anyone from the Milky Way get there?

Well:

She [Ezri] frowned. "Seems like a waste of a perfectly good slipstream drive, if you ask me. Now that it's fully online, I was hoping we'd get to visit a new galaxy or something."

Riker gently chided her, "A new one? Do you mind if we finish exploring this one first?"

"Don't be silly, William," Dax teased, standing on tiptoes to plant a chaste kiss on his cheek. "That's what Starfleet has you for."

Even for a slipstream drive that Kadishev galaxy's pretty far.I wouldn't wanna be on the Aventine if something broke and stranded the ship.

 

[KRAD]

I wouldn't wanna be on the Aventine if something broke and stranded the ship.

Well, that holds true for deep-space exploration like what Titan's doing. If you're stranded thousands of light-years from Federation space, you're just as screwed....

 

[Christopher]

I wouldn't wanna be on the Aventine if something broke and stranded the ship.

Well, that holds true for deep-space exploration like what Titan's doing. If you're stranded thousands of light-years from Federation space, you're just as screwed....

Not quite. If Titan breaks down, at least there's a chance they can send out a distress call and get help from some hitherto unknown species living or operating a few light-years away. But if a slipstream vessel broke down in the middle of the intergalactic void, there'd be little chance of a friendly port within thousands of parsecs.

 

[Clawhammer]

That would be troublesome indeed. Perhaps it's better to visit another galaxy if subspace messages can be folded and more QSD ships are available, maybe Starfleet would choose to chart the rest of the Milky Way first? I mean we are talking about a huge huge area here!

 

[Silversmok3]

I wouldn't wanna be on the Aventine if something broke and stranded the ship.

Well, that holds true for deep-space exploration like what Titan's doing. If you're stranded thousands of light-years from Federation space, you're just as screwed....

Not quite. If Titan breaks down, at least there's a chance they can send out a distress call and get help from some hitherto unknown species living or operating a few light-years away. But if a slipstream vessel broke down in the middle of the intergalactic void, there'd be little chance of a friendly port within thousands of parsecs.

And Titan would be in the same galaxy as her homeworld.Meaning if the warp drive 'tosses a rod' they'll only need a few years to limp home,versus a few thousand millenia if the slipstream drive fails in another galaxy.

 

[Christopher]

And Titan would be in the same galaxy as her homeworld.Meaning if the warp drive 'tosses a rod' they'll only need a few years to limp home,versus a few thousand millenia if the slipstream drive fails in another galaxy.

Err, no. Titan typically operates at least several hundred light-years from the Federation border, and has gotten as far out as maybe 1200-1500 ly. Without warp drive, it would take over a year to cover a single light-year (by the definition of the unit), and therefore it would take them hundreds or thousands of years to "limp home." Unless you're proposing they employ relativistic time-dilation like Columbia did in Destiny -- but it would still be centuries or millennia in the outside universe even if it was only a few years within the ship.

 

[Sci]

I was going over Destiny Book III and decided to come up with a list of planets and their known fates. What I have so far is:

Confirmed Exterminated:
Ramatis (species homeworld)
Acamar (species homeworld)
Deneva

Believed Exterminated:
Coridan (species homeworld)
Risa (species homeworld)
Regulus
Korvat
Barolia (species homeworld)
Yridia (species homeworld)
Hyralan
Celes

Devestated – Attacks Interrupted:
Qo’noS (species homeworld)
Vulcan (species homeworld)
Andor (species homeworld)
Tellar (species homeworld)
Rigel (species homeworld)
Ardana (species homeworld)

Attacked – Status Unknown:
Aldebaaren
Nausicaa (species homeworld)

Targeted – Status Unknown:
Gorath
Elas (species homeworld)
Ajilon
Archanis
Castor

Targeted – Spared All Damage:
Troyius (species homeworld)
Earth (species homeworld)
Luna
Mars

 

[Ayelbourne]

I was going over Destiny Book III and decided to come up with a list of planets and their known fates. What I have so far is:

Confirmed Exterminated:
Ramatis (species homeworld)
Acamar (species homeworld)
Deneva

"Khitomer and Beta Thoridor have fallen" pg 39
I think, we can safely add this historic place to the list.
As well as Beta Thoridor, of course.

 

[Marie1]

And I'm a bit worried about Andor too, even though that damage was partial...