Spock's the best 1st Officer in Starfleet?
- Thread starter Pavonis
- Start date
Yeah, I double checked, and Tom Nellis was first officer and the navigator for Antares. Number One was at the helm and definitely first officer, too.
Frankly, in TOS "First Officer" just means the second-in-command, and the position may not come with any specific duties the way an executive officer position would. So Spock pulling double duty wouldn't be that impressive, and the scant evidence in the show points to all First Officers having a useful posting, too.
Therefore Spock probably isn't valuable just because he can do both the Science Officer and First Officer jobs simultaneously. So why can he get away with hijacking a starship without a real court martial?
Frankly, in TOS "First Officer" just means the second-in-command, and the position may not come with any specific duties the way an executive officer position would. So Spock pulling double duty wouldn't be that impressive, and the scant evidence in the show points to all First Officers having a useful posting, too.
Therefore Spock probably isn't valuable just because he can do both the Science Officer and First Officer jobs simultaneously. So why can he get away with hijacking a starship without a real court martial?
T'Pau pulled Spock's ass out of the fire at the end of "Amok Time", but at the end of "The Menagerie", too?
Two questions occur to me:
1. Did T'Pau learn that Kirk wasn't dead? Because she saves his ass from Admiral Komack's wrath for being late to Altair. If she didn't know he was alive, then she did it for Spock, which makes you wonder how far she'd defend Spock. If he had killed Kirk, what would she say or do?
2. Did T'Pau perhaps request Enterprise be diverted to Vulcan earlier, and the request just finally got approval after they had finished there? Because how fast would the channels have to be for T'Pau to ask for Enterprise to visit Vulcan and get approval? Same day service just for her?
Two questions occur to me:
1. Did T'Pau learn that Kirk wasn't dead? Because she saves his ass from Admiral Komack's wrath for being late to Altair. If she didn't know he was alive, then she did it for Spock, which makes you wonder how far she'd defend Spock. If he had killed Kirk, what would she say or do?
2. Did T'Pau perhaps request Enterprise be diverted to Vulcan earlier, and the request just finally got approval after they had finished there? Because how fast would the channels have to be for T'Pau to ask for Enterprise to visit Vulcan and get approval? Same day service just for her?
which explains why spock edited him out of the timeline
Perhaps the Talosians requested leniency and Starfleet was inclined to grant it since you don't want a race of people who can project illusions pissed off at you?
Why would the Talosians care if Spock were court martialed, though? What's their benefit if Spock continues to serve? If anything, Talosians support indicates that Spock is in the pocket of a dangerous people. Unless something was happening between the UFP top brass and the Talosians...perhaps some agreement where the Talosians stop luring in starfarers to be used as slaves, and the UFP arranges for assistance, perhaps some bright Pakleds to work under Pike and Vina's direction?
He's also a complicated man, but no one understands him but his woman.
He's also a complicated man, but no one understands him but his woman.
Uhura or Chapel?
Damn. Now I have that in my head.
Spock!
John Spock.
Spock!
John Spock.
First Officer and Executive Officer are the same position.
It's just two different ways of referring to the same person.
Is it, though? Especially in the TOS era, the First Officer position seems to be exclusively the second-in-command. There are no other duties ascribed to it. We saw Riker take care of typical XO duties, but never Spock. Was he even called the executive officer, ever? He was always just the Science Officer who happened to also rank just behind Kirk. Frankly, it seems like Kirk was his own XO.
Quickly googling for the term at the Chakoteya transcript site gives five uses of "executive" in TNG, three of them from the first season and referring to Riker and the other two from later but "unreal" cases ("executive officer in charge of radishes" plus "XO MacDuff")...
DS9 has three hits, one of which also contains use of the abbreviation "XO".
No hits anywhere in VOY, ENT or TOS/TAS!
In canon, then, it would appear that Sisko was Leyton's XO and Riker was Picard's XO, but no other First Officer is known to have carried that additional title, and no officer other than somebody's second-in-command is known to have been XO to anybody. Quite possibly being XO is an administrative job that may be held by various people aboard a Starfleet ship, and only select First Officers opt to take this as their "second proficiency". Spock instead chooses to be Chief Science Officer on the side, and Kirk's XO may be some Lieutenant or Ensign serving under Ben Finney...
Timo Saloniemi
DS9 has three hits, one of which also contains use of the abbreviation "XO".
No hits anywhere in VOY, ENT or TOS/TAS!
In canon, then, it would appear that Sisko was Leyton's XO and Riker was Picard's XO, but no other First Officer is known to have carried that additional title, and no officer other than somebody's second-in-command is known to have been XO to anybody. Quite possibly being XO is an administrative job that may be held by various people aboard a Starfleet ship, and only select First Officers opt to take this as their "second proficiency". Spock instead chooses to be Chief Science Officer on the side, and Kirk's XO may be some Lieutenant or Ensign serving under Ben Finney...
Timo Saloniemi
Thanks, Timo. That's what I thought. The label "executive officer" just wasn't used much in Trek. "First Officer" and "Second Officer" were just used in reference to the chain of command, not to particular duties. So Spock was First Officer, but his duties were those of a Science Officer. His performance as both First Officer and Science Officer should not be any more remarkable than Scott's performance as both Chief Engineering Officer and Second Officer.
So I have to think that Spock isn't retained because he's so remarkable at pulling double duty - all Starfleet officers pull double duty, it seems, or rather none of them do. They all have duties that they perform, and a position in the chain of command.
Political connections are looking to be the best explanation for Spock's continuing service after hijacking Enterprise.
So I have to think that Spock isn't retained because he's so remarkable at pulling double duty - all Starfleet officers pull double duty, it seems, or rather none of them do. They all have duties that they perform, and a position in the chain of command.
Political connections are looking to be the best explanation for Spock's continuing service after hijacking Enterprise.
Sorry, that's the most convoluted thing I've read in a long time, and completely at odds with everything we've seen both in Star Trek and throughout its various inspirations.
I suppose "Number One" is yet some third person.
And someone needs to mention (so I will) that Spock is not the first XO we've seen to have another job. Pike's XO manned the helm.
Read posts #22 and #23.
Already been mentioned, beaker. Didn't you read the other posts?
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