Spock: The Need to Breed

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think the destruction of Vulcan could be quite a blow to Spock and Uhura's relationship because with only 10,000 Vulcans left the need to repopulate the species would mean even Spock's diluted genes would be needed. Out of those 10,000 a certain percentage would be unable to reproduce due to age though I'd imagine Vulcans living off world and able to get to ships and leave (or in ships already) at the time of destruction would be of prime breeding age. A very generous estimate would be 5000 Vulcan women of breeding age.

IMO Vulcan should use reproductive medicine to ensure that each birth would be twins. As has already been speculated they may need to shorten the 7 year gap. No matter what measures they go to I think a man of Spock's age would be under great pressure not to make any life choices that delay or opt out of the breeding of more Vulcans. How can he in good conscience continue his relationship with Uhura?

If there were only 10,000 humans left and I was in love with, say, Shran and my people came to me and said, "we need you to breed.. you are of prime age and we need everyone who is capable to contribute to the next generation of our species".. well I would just feel compelled to do it. Maybe I would insist on using donor sperm and Shran would just have to be the step-dad but I think this would not be an option for Vulcans who would want the first generation post genocide to be fully steeped in Vulcan cuture.

I think the only hope for Spock escaping this pressue is if they decided they didn't want diluted genes in their very small gene pool.

 

[Tribbles]

Do you think Spock, considering the situation from the standpoint of logic instead of emotional attachment, would deem it acceptable to mate with a Vulcan woman while maintaining his relationship with Uhura? Perhaps he wouldn't understand why she would be upset about such a scenario since he's made it clear he has no intention of a further relationship beyond conceiving a child.

I'd like to think he wouldn't be that cold about it, though. nuSpock seems very aware of his emotions, even if he struggles to suppress them, so I'm sure he would recognize the potential problems with that scenario and how much it might hurt Uhura.

 

[T'Girl]

Could a non-Vulcan woman carry a full vulcan baby to term? Amanda did give birth to a half Vulcan baby. Volunteers and hired surrogates (are we cashless yet?) could accelerate the Vulcan population growth.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Do you think Spock, considering the situation from the standpoint of logic instead of emotional attachment, would deem it acceptable to mate with a Vulcan woman while maintaining his relationship with Uhura? Perhaps he wouldn't understand why she would be upset about such a scenario since he's made it clear he has no intention of a further relationship beyond conceiving a child.

I'd like to think he wouldn't be that cold about it, though. nuSpock seems very aware of his emotions, even if he struggles to suppress them, so I'm sure he would recognize the potential problems with that scenario and how much it might hurt Uhura.

I would think the mature choice would be for everyone to be "cold" in this situation. If it was me, I would reproduce and if my non-human mate had a problem with it then I would have to question whether they had really grasped what it means to be a member of a species near extinction.

It's like you love someone and then they are in a terrible accident and end up a paraplegic. You didn't sign up for that. Does your relationship survive the damage caused by outside forces on one member?

Spock could just produce the sperm needed without actually mating with the Vulcan woman. There may well be Vulcan women in marriages where the Vulcan husband is sterile for whatever reason.. but she is not. That Vulcan woman would be a good candidate for donor sperm.

Uhura is just going to have to accept that who Spock is has radically changed.

 

[Jeri]

Although it seemed in the movie as though both Spocks were determined to help rebuild Vulcan, I'm all set to hear some individuals of the racist persuasion make a case against mixed-blood procreation.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Could a non-Vulcan woman carry a full vulcan baby to term? Amanda did give birth to a half Vulcan baby. Volunteers and hired surrogates (are we cashless yet?) could accelerate the Vulcan population growth.

Good point. After all the shortage is in wombs and time, not eggs and sperm. Imagine if you could be pregnant with your own child and a surrogate could be carrying another child of yours for you, to be raised together by you. You could really kick start the population if this was a widespread practice.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

I really hope this doesn't become an issue in the twelfth film, for me it smacks of somewhat racist ideals about purity of race and so forth as well as some sudo-nazi wierdness (the Nazi's told their SS and military officers to breed often with lots of women for the sake of the "Aryan" race), Spock should be a one women Vulcan no matter what, that means no staying with Uhura unless of course the relationship fails.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The Vulcans have always been purists about their culture. We already have that element in NuTrek.

If humans were down to 10,000 do you think encouragement to breed would be "pseudo-nazi weirdness"?

It's just pragmatic. I'm not suggesting Vulcan would force people to have children.. I doubt they would have to. It's completely logical. You don't rebuild a species without people.

 

[Sabataage]

I think the destruction of Vulcan could be quite a blow to Spock and Uhura's relationship because with only 10,000 Vulcans left the need to repopulate the species would mean even Spock's diluted genes would be needed. Out of those 10,000 a certain percentage would be unable to reproduce due to age though I'd imagine Vulcans living off world and able to get to ships and leave (or in ships already) at the time of destruction would be of prime breeding age. A very generous estimate would be 5000 Vulcan women of breeding age.

IMO Vulcan should use reproductive medicine to ensure that each birth would be twins. As has already been speculated they may need to shorten the 7 year gap. No matter what measures they go to I think a man of Spock's age would be under great pressure not to make any life choices that delay or opt out of the breeding of more Vulcans. How can he in good conscience continue his relationship with Uhura?

If there were only 10,000 humans left and I was in love with, say, Shran and my people came to me and said, "we need you to breed.. you are of prime age and we need everyone who is capable to contribute to the next generation of our species".. well I would just feel compelled to do it. Maybe I would insist on using donor sperm and Shran would just have to be the step-dad but I think this would not be an option for Vulcans who would want the first generation post genocide to be fully steeped in Vulcan cuture.

I think the only hope for Spock escaping this pressue is if they decided they didn't want diluted genes in their very small gene pool.

Spock could just donate his sperm. Vulcan women too, could just give a few of their eggs and continue their work in space while the older generations raise and educate the children.
Though I'd speculate that you'll see a lot more part-Vulcans like Spock in the future. I could imagine that the isolationist mind-set that made them such easy targets for Nero ("let's all stay where we are on our homeworld and not spread out to decrease the risk of extinction") would be abandoned in favor of a more open, pluralist culture. So you may wind up with lots of part human/ Andorian/ Denobulan Vulcan children running around and not laughing and not playing.

"Vulcan" has always been characterized as a viewpoint or midset like a cultural or religious distinction than a biological one. The fact that Romulans are nearly identical to Vulcans but operate without "logic" reinforces that idea that what makes a Vulcan "Vulcan" goes beyond just green blood.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Though I'd speculate that you'll see a lot more part-Vulcans like Spock in the future. I could imagine that the isolationist mind-set that made them such easy targets for Nero ("let's all stay where we are on our homeworld and not spread out to decrease the risk of extinction") would be abandoned in favor of a more open, pluralist culture. So you may wind up with lots of part human/ Andorian/ Denobulan Vulcan children running around and not laughing and not playing.

Or they will become xenophobic fanatics and close their doors on culture other than their own.

 

[Jeri]

Yeah...I don't think genetic technology is going to be a problem for them. The problem will come in where they actually raise the children. Every Vulcan child is wanted, it's been said. They are not going to have an assembly line. Raising them is more important than creating them. And raising them is going to be labor intensive and slow.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yeah...I don't think genetic technology is going to be a problem for them. The problem will come in where they actually raise the children. Every Vulcan child is wanted, it's been said. They are not going to have an assembly line. Raising them is more important than creating them. And raising them is going to be labor intensive and slow.

Yes. I do think having twins with each birth would be a good option though, you are at least raising double what you would have most likely raised before.

I do not think Vulcans will want as many as possible, they will want to preserve and instill everything about Vulcan culture into the post-genocide generation. But putting off breeding will not be acceptable.

Perhaps Spock will hold onto Prime Spocks words and be seen as a traitor for remaining in Starfleet.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Vulcans should do a research on 21st century Earth and technology on how to have as many Vulcan Octomoms as possible.

 

[Franklin]

I would think genetic engineering has to enter into it sooner or later if the goal is to try to repopulate the Vulcan species in any great numbers. Even in the 23rd century that would raise a host of ethical questions.
And as it is otherwise, a gene pool of only about 10,000 seems pretty small and nondiverse as a core for any kind of mass repopulating. Over time, that could be detremental to the healthy growth of the Vulcan species.

To that end, I don't see the need for them to try to repopulate in great numbers any time soon. There may be some initial urgency to grow, but it would seem more logical to try to balance the growth with maintaining whatever diversity can be kept among the survivors. The goal would be to create a sustainable and stable population that may always be small, but at least gaurantees there will always be Vulcans.

 

[DrTaylor]

Do you think Spock, considering the situation from the standpoint of logic instead of emotional attachment, would deem it acceptable to mate with a Vulcan woman while maintaining his relationship with Uhura? Perhaps he wouldn't understand why she would be upset about such a scenario since he's made it clear he has no intention of a further relationship beyond conceiving a child.

Would she be upset? How far does her understanding of Vulcans go? She probably speaks the language - does she understand the culture well enough to allow that? Would Vulcan culture allow it?

 

[Franklin]

Do you think Spock, considering the situation from the standpoint of logic instead of emotional attachment, would deem it acceptable to mate with a Vulcan woman while maintaining his relationship with Uhura? Perhaps he wouldn't understand why she would be upset about such a scenario since he's made it clear he has no intention of a further relationship beyond conceiving a child.

Would she be upset? How far does her understanding of Vulcans go? She probably speaks the language - does she understand the culture well enough to allow that? Would Vulcan culture allow it?

Well, it wouldn't be like Uhura comes home some evening and finds Spock in bed with a Vulcan woman (with three more lined up outside the bedroom waiting).
Spock and other Vulcan men would donate sperm. Vulcan women would donate eggs. It would be more efficient. Culturally, even though these would be "test tube" babies, they would obviously be wanted (desperately, under the circumstances) even if the children never know their genetic parents.
It's also quite conceivable [sorry, sorry] that Spock would never know the women who were impregnated with his sperm.

I think we're making this repopulation sound like more fun that it would really be.

 

[SalvorHardin]

A bit unrelated to breeding, but i wonder if this genocide could cause Vulcans to reevaluate and reconsider Surak's teachings, logic, pacifism and maybe allow for more of their natural emotional state to emerge again.

 

[Jeri]

Personally, I think the Romulans are going to enter into this equation, so things may get all bent out of shape.

 

[Franklin]

A bit unrelated to breeding, but i wonder if this genocide could cause Vulcans to reevaluate and reconsider Surak's teachings, logic, pacifism and maybe allow for more of their natural emotional state to emerge again.

That's a very good point. And, it is related to breeding. A less logical approach to repopulating that allows for diversity and adaptation may actually be more beneficial to the species in the long run than trying to approach repopulating in a logical, doctrinaire way would be.
I mean, they do have to face one thing, try as they might, the Vulcan species and way of life will never be the same again. I'd think they'd realize that and that it would be illogical to try to make things as they were.

 

[Sabataage]

Though I'd speculate that you'll see a lot more part-Vulcans like Spock in the future. I could imagine that the isolationist mind-set that made them such easy targets for Nero ("let's all stay where we are on our homeworld and not spread out to decrease the risk of extinction") would be abandoned in favor of a more open, pluralist culture. So you may wind up with lots of part human/ Andorian/ Denobulan Vulcan children running around and not laughing and not playing.

Or they will become xenophobic fanatics and close their doors on culture other than their own.

Either /or really. Though it would be interesting to see what a "Warrior Vulcan" might look like.