Spock Ethical Dilemmas
- Thread starter duspock
- Start date
I thought the big ethical dilemma Spock wrestled with silently throughout the series was if he should, or should not 'OUT' Sulu.
I always was under the impression that was some form of unspoken dialog going back and forth between Spock and McCoy by doing that raised eyebrow thing back and forth to each other while talking to KIRK about space business?
SPOCK: Blah, blah, blah,.. (raises eyebrow at McCoy = Should we tell him now Doctor?)
McCOY: Double-speak, Double-speak,.. (raises eyebrow back at Spock = You tell him,,, I ain't gonna tell him!)
Hmmm,...
I always was under the impression that was some form of unspoken dialog going back and forth between Spock and McCoy by doing that raised eyebrow thing back and forth to each other while talking to KIRK about space business?
SPOCK: Blah, blah, blah,.. (raises eyebrow at McCoy = Should we tell him now Doctor?)
McCOY: Double-speak, Double-speak,.. (raises eyebrow back at Spock = You tell him,,, I ain't gonna tell him!)
Hmmm,...
I think we all have some fun at Sulu's expense after George's public coming-out, but there's no evidence that I'm aware of that Sulu's gay. Except for oiling himself up and barechestedly chasing crewmen while waving his sword.
Regarding Spock and ethics, I felt that his mind-touch with a grieving Kirk at the end of 'Requiem for Methuselah' was questionable. Spock did not ask permission to initiate this contact, which is highly unusual for him with people he knows.
Well BILL, ask yourself that question when he is chasing you down the dark and lonely corridors of Engineering, half-naked, covered in baby oil, and swinging a sword at you LOL!!!! I am sure you'll get your answer, in the end. ROFL!!!
"Talley-Ho,.oo,.oooooo Noooooo!!!!
Too silly.
"Talley-Ho,.oo,.oooooo Noooooo!!!!
Too silly.
Last edited:
Unless "sword" is a really awful euphemism, the question still stands...AND the sword would still be a bigger concern.
Well, don't blame me,.. I didn't write the episode that way, complain to John Black who did,.. now why don't you just try to "relax and loosen up" about a show written 40 years ago.
Your the one who brought it up with the nonsense of Spock outing Sulu and then kept digging.
Actually BILL, I was referring to the other quality the writers gave this character, and that is SULU's private passion is plants and flowers, being his hobby... butt I guess that offends you too,... again, send those complaints to J.D.F. Black, the episode writer,.......after all, what would the womanizing-macho Capt think about his ace weapons officers enjoying "panzies", in his off time,... THAT was unspoken eye-brow raising dialog I was referring to.
That was the outing I was talking about,.... where YOU are coming from,.. well, I have no idea,.. it's a place this man has not gone before.
How your personal sensitivities, projections, fears and guilt, lifestyle choices and why you decided to assign to my posts all this other talk, was wholly contained in all in your posts, not mine, and that is the only place such talk wormed its way into thread.
So please, re-read the posts of mine and you shall see I never mentioned such things of which YOU speak; I was talking about his botany hobby,.. YOU can make it about whatever YOU choose, butt please, do not involve me in your person business. This is a platform to discuss a TV show, not a place for you to push your personal agenda and lifestyle choice onto others.
That was the outing I was talking about,.... where YOU are coming from,.. well, I have no idea,.. it's a place this man has not gone before.
How your personal sensitivities, projections, fears and guilt, lifestyle choices and why you decided to assign to my posts all this other talk, was wholly contained in all in your posts, not mine, and that is the only place such talk wormed its way into thread.
So please, re-read the posts of mine and you shall see I never mentioned such things of which YOU speak; I was talking about his botany hobby,.. YOU can make it about whatever YOU choose, butt please, do not involve me in your person business. This is a platform to discuss a TV show, not a place for you to push your personal agenda and lifestyle choice onto others.
That's enough of that. Your post was off-topic and boderline offensive (so Botany is gay?).
Consider this a friendly warning. Next time will be a trolling infraction.
This is non-sense. Sulu was a botanist in Where No Man... and others knew of his interest in botany from The Man Trap.
Nice job trying to back peddle from your statements...
To continue,...
Spock actually faces moral and ethical dilemmas all throughout the series,.. if you take his speeches which denote the Vulcan philosophies, beliefs, and attitudes toward nature and other sentient beings, and all manner of flora and fauna; and juxtapose those ideals against the vast majority of situations we find him in, decisions he must make. even the missions assigned to them by the UFP, you would find much like all the violations and infractions of the Prime Directive itself, Spock violates his spoken beliefs on an episode by episode - and even scene by scene basis.
Simple case in point:
We have all heard that tired old hat speech about how "the needs of many must out weigh the needs of the few",.. and although they played out the inner conflict through some of the best dialog of the series,.. in the final analysis, Spocks plea to Kirk is to Kill the Horta - the last of its kind, and mother to hundreds of thousands of offspring,... just to save his personal friend.
Of course Spock cannot live up to the beliefs and standards we are told he and his people hold dear,.. or Kirk would have been 'Fried Spaghetti' - with no further thought than any other computation of selfless logic.
Which of course you can't do, since it kills off the star, and thus ends the series.
So, Spock as written MUST go against much of what he espouses on a regular basis in order to tell an effective story,.. Just as Kirk MUST violate the PD time and again.
The Spock moral/ethic speeches are beautiful, but quite contrary to so many of the actions and decisions he takes.
If you were to make a real study of the violations, I am sure the list would easily quintuple that of the PD violations so often dragged out.
Listen to his speech to Dr. Sev & Adam,.. and then watch the Horta scene I cited,... "Non Sequitur", quoth Nomad.
Spock actually faces moral and ethical dilemmas all throughout the series,.. if you take his speeches which denote the Vulcan philosophies, beliefs, and attitudes toward nature and other sentient beings, and all manner of flora and fauna; and juxtapose those ideals against the vast majority of situations we find him in, decisions he must make. even the missions assigned to them by the UFP, you would find much like all the violations and infractions of the Prime Directive itself, Spock violates his spoken beliefs on an episode by episode - and even scene by scene basis.
Simple case in point:
We have all heard that tired old hat speech about how "the needs of many must out weigh the needs of the few",.. and although they played out the inner conflict through some of the best dialog of the series,.. in the final analysis, Spocks plea to Kirk is to Kill the Horta - the last of its kind, and mother to hundreds of thousands of offspring,... just to save his personal friend.
Of course Spock cannot live up to the beliefs and standards we are told he and his people hold dear,.. or Kirk would have been 'Fried Spaghetti' - with no further thought than any other computation of selfless logic.
Which of course you can't do, since it kills off the star, and thus ends the series.
So, Spock as written MUST go against much of what he espouses on a regular basis in order to tell an effective story,.. Just as Kirk MUST violate the PD time and again.
The Spock moral/ethic speeches are beautiful, but quite contrary to so many of the actions and decisions he takes.
If you were to make a real study of the violations, I am sure the list would easily quintuple that of the PD violations so often dragged out.
Listen to his speech to Dr. Sev & Adam,.. and then watch the Horta scene I cited,... "Non Sequitur", quoth Nomad.
The weird personal memory I'll always have with that episode is ordering it from Columbia House, and waiting seven goddamn weeks for it to arrive.
I'm still frequently amazed by the concept of Amazon's next day shipping.
Given all the Star Trek that we've seen, and there has never been a single openly gay Starfleet officer, it does sound like people in the 23rd century would care.Why would anyone in the 23rd century care if Sulu is gay?
But none of this is known when Spock recommends that course of action. All they know is, it is a dangerous creature that has killed several people. The mind meld giving Spock knowledge of the creature's motives hasn't happened yet.
