Spock as romantic hero

[bookworm8571]

Spock has always been the thinking woman’s sex symbol going back to the 1960s and 70s, but a lot of his appeal centered on his mystique and Vulcan repression and whether a woman would break through his control. Modern Trek shows are really making him a very different type of hero, to the point where it feels like another universe.

Young Spock had a beard-wearing, rebellious, emotional phase in Discovery. He openly discusses his half human heritage, why he joined Starfleet, and his history of bullying and exclusion by other Vulcan children in a Starfleet documentary. Most of the crew knew him during this phase.

Young Spock had a functional, sexually active relationship with a smart and likable T’Pring. She asked him to marry her, they mind-melded, they traded bodies, T’Pring was on a first name basis with Christopher Pike. They were sufficiently far enough along in the relationship to hold the ritual dinner where their parents told them their faults and how they might improve. Vulcan couples are free to sever a bond as adults and T’Pring appears to have decided to move on. Spock certainly felt free to explore relationships with other women. T’Pring had options if she did not want to marry Spock before he had his pon-farr. Christine Chapel knew and met T’Pring and knew her as Spock’s fiancee. All of this makes their actions in “Amok Time” either unforgivable or incomprehensible.

Spock was passionately in love with Christine Chapel. She was the one who broke it off and broke his heart. She was genuinely in love with Roger Korby. By the time the original series comes around, Christine has what Dr. McCoy thinks is an unrequited crush on Spock, has decided she loves Spock, and Spock is resistant. What happens in between now and the original series?

Spock is romantically involved with La’An Noonien-Singh. The whole crew saw them dance the jitter bug. She taught him the cha cha, the waltz, and the tango. They have undoubtedly seen her coming out of Spock’s quarters and vice versa. Spock and La’An are seen meditating together in Beto’s documentary. So tell me again why they’re all surprised when they meet her many times great grandfather Khan? https://www.danceus.org/argentine-tango/the-waltz-tango-spock-star-trek-strange-new-worlds/

No Leila Kalomi yet, but young Spock had absolutely no problem expressing his human side.

They’ve developed Spock in such a way that they really should just make it an alternate universe.

 

[Starflight]

It's been said in other threads, but yeah, I'm in the camp who feel that the character has lost much of his appeal over the last season and a half, and that the focus on his romantic engagements is boring. It's no fault of Peck's, who has proven himself capable of portraying a superb Spock (and did so consistently in SNW's first season), it's just writing choices that even his strong performance can't lift.

I didn't mind the Chapel stuff but the writers rushed through it and blew their load way too early IMO, and the La'an relationship has no steam in the engine at all. I really wish they'd just kept him with T'Pring, who I like a lot, and left his dynamic with Chapel as a simmering background thing that both characters were trying to suppress.

As for the logical issues connecting all this to "Amok Time" - it's probably a controversial opinion, but "Amok Time" is batshit and doesn't fit well into Vulcan/Federation society as portrayed by the rest of the franchise. We're meant to demonise T'Pring for wanting to escape an arranged marriage, and using (we assume) the only legal path open to her to accomplish that. iirc the episode gives no indication that T'Pring had an easier, less violent way to abort the marriage, we're just meant to hate her for not wanting to marry Spock. I'd just as soon ignore "Amok Time" entirely and go with SNW's representation of T'Pring and her relationship with Spock, which I think is much more interesting. Or was, anyway.

 

[bookworm8571]

It's been said in other threads, but yeah, I'm in the camp who feel that the character has lost much of his appeal over the last season and a half, and that the focus on his romantic engagements is boring. It's no fault of Peck's, who has proven himself capable of portraying a superb Spock (and did so consistently in SNW's first season), it's just writing choices that even his strong performance can't lift.

I didn't mind the Chapel stuff but the writers rushed through it and blew their load way too early IMO, and the La'an relationship has no steam in the engine at all. I really wish they'd just kept him with T'Pring, who I like a lot, and left his dynamic with Chapel as a simmering background thing that both characters were trying to suppress.

As for the logical issues connecting all this to "Amok Time" - it's probably a controversial opinion, but "Amok Time" is batshit and doesn't fit well into Vulcan/Federation society as portrayed by the rest of the franchise. We're meant to demonise T'Pring for wanting to escape an arranged marriage, and using (we assume) the only legal path open to her to accomplish that. iirc the episode gives no indication that T'Pring had an easier, less violent way to abort the marriage, we're just meant to hate her for not wanting to marry Spock. I'd just as soon ignore "Amok Time" entirely and go with SNW's representation of T'Pring and her relationship with Spock, which I think is much more interesting. Or was, anyway.

I actually find the romantic entanglements appealing. I’m more interested in an exploration of the characters and of culture than I am in space battles and discussions about what type of ship they’re in. My favorite episodes of this season are Wedding Bell Blues, A Space Time Adventure, and Four snd a Half Vulcans. Earlier season favorites are also episodes where Spock and/or La’An were prominent. I liked Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, but it really blew a hole in original series canon. So, keep doing what they’re doing but make it an alternate universe. That would also mean we don’t necessarily know how it ends, which increases enjoyment.

I agree that they should jettison “Amok Time.” The pon farr is illogical at this point, though they’re stuck with it. Something that medically important to treating Spock would be known by M’Benga, Chapel, and McCoy. There are obviously major cultural taboos surrounding it, but it has to be known by medical personnel. The original stories suggested it affected only males and females who were mentally bonded to them. So how do they explain the apparently unmarried Doug and Una Chin-Riley? Maybe their passionate attraction is a mating bond that they can’t quite sever and that they give way to every time Doug is feeling in a pon farr sort of way? Explore it.

 

[Mudd]

They’ve developed Spock in such a way that they really should just make it an alternate universe.

No. Spock as he is on the show is just perfect.

 

[Yistaan]

I actually find the romantic entanglements appealing. I’m more interested in an exploration of the characters and of culture than I am in space battles and discussions about what type of ship they’re in. My favorite episodes of this season are Wedding Bell Blues, A Space Time Adventure, and Four snd a Half Vulcans. Earlier season favorites are also episodes where Spock and/or La’An were prominent. I liked Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, but it really blew a hole in original series canon. So, keep doing what they’re doing but make it an alternate universe. That would also mean we don’t necessarily know how it ends, which increases enjoyment.

I agree that they should jettison “Amok Time.” The pon farr is illogical at this point, though they’re stuck with it. Something that medically important to treating Spock would be known by M’Benga, Chapel, and McCoy. There are obviously major cultural taboos surrounding it, but it has to be known by medical personnel. The original stories suggested it affected only males and females who were mentally bonded to them. So how do they explain the apparently unmarried Doug and Una Chin-Riley? Maybe their passionate attraction is a mating bond that they can’t quite sever and that they give way to every time Doug is feeling in a pon farr sort of way? Explore it.

Not only that, but Doug looks on the old side so, being a Vulcan, he's probably well over a century old if not 2.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Not only that, but Doug looks on the old side so, being a Vulcan, he's probably well over a century old if not 2.

Don't they say somewhere the Vulcan libido increases with age?

 

[Yistaan]

Don't they say somewhere the Vulcan libido increases with age?

Ambassador Spock: And now that Nero has destroyed Vulcan, I will now help rebuild our species.

Kelvin Spock:

 

[Turtletrekker]

I have no problem connecting Ethan Peck's Spock to Leonard Nimoy's. There's no need whatsoever to place Strange New Worlds in an alternate reality. That's just a lazy use of imagination.

 

[bookworm8571]

Not only that, but Doug looks on the old side so, being a Vulcan, he's probably well over a century old if not 2.

My head canon says his childhood bondmate rejected him because he’s V’tosh ka’tur. He met Una when she was in her twenties. There was an instant, passionate attraction and meeting of minds. They formed a mating bond. She was focused on her career and paranoid about close relationships because of being Illyrian, so they broke up. Distance actually intensified the bond and made them difficult to be around. Una became “Where fun goes to die.” The pattern repeated itself and Una is drawn to him and they reunite whenever Doug is in pon farr. Four and a Half Vulcans is the latest episode. Una might be more open now that her Illyrian identity is out in the open.

For the pon farr trope to work, there would have to be some way to deal with it when a bondmate is unavailable. Maybe the temple priestesses form temporary marriages with unbonded Vulcans in pon farr when the need arises or they have drugs to control it (though McCoy certainly didn’t have anything to use.)

 

[fireproof78]

They’ve developed Spock in such a way that they really should just make it an alternate universe.

So it is and it can be treated that way.

I personally just don't have the issues with Spock having a love life. Call it wish fulfillment, or just appreciating that Spock is being treated as a person with feelings, as Nimoy played him, and being allowed to grow, but his growth on SNW is one point I enjoy.