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Spock’s Command Decision In Galileo Seven

But it is on screen. Rand is a trained astronaut. We know that because she works on a spaceship and Roddenberry confirmed all members of the crew are trained astronauts. Yeoman is her position on the ship; her job is astronaut. :-)

In ST09 it is stated to be a 4 year course akin to a degree level (typically 3 years) plus astronaut training and officer (command) training. Many characters have done one or more post-grads or extra modules. MD training seems assumed to be about 7 years like the real world, based on Bashir's career trajectory and some, like McCoy, Chapel, or Scotty qualify first and just do the additional training for astronaut and command.
Again, where are members of Starfleet called "astronauts" by Starfleet? Starfleet personnel are trained to work on Starfleet ships and facilities. That probably includes emergency procedures, like finding a escape pod. Maybe some weapons training and basic first aid.
Military Academies are all four programs.
Are post grad degrees in dispute here? Why bring them up?
 
Again, where are members of Starfleet called "astronauts" by Starfleet? Starfleet personnel are trained to work on Starfleet ships and facilities. That probably includes emergency procedures, like finding a escape pod. Maybe some weapons training and basic first aid.
Military Academies are all four programs.
Are post grad degrees in dispute here? Why bring them up?
The term "astronaut" comes from the Greek words for "star sailor" and was once reserved for military-trained professionals. The issue isn't that Roddenberry said they were astronauts, patently they are. The issue is that he considered that the crew consisted of 'trained' astronauts.

I only brought up the post-grads to cover off Starfleet training that takes longer than 4 years but I have taken a look at Memory Alpha if that helps, which does cite sources for the standard assumptions:

"The Academy program typically lasted four years, though certain programs lasted five, six, or eight years. (TNG: "The First Duty", "Conundrum"; TOS: "Bread and Circuses")"

"The Academy had a separate program for the training of enlisted crewpeople, which included receiving basic training and attending the Starfleet Technical Services Academy on Mars. (TNG: "The Drumhead", "Eye of the Beholder"; LD: "Reflections")"

"Post-graduate options
So, you can make assumptions on what kind of 'basic training' enlisted crew undergoes but following naval traditions, it could be the space equivalent of the following:

"Recruits are instructed on military drill, watchstanding, basic seamanship, water survival skills, first aid, basic shipboard damage control, firefighting, shipboard communication, familiarization with the M9 pistol and Mossberg 500 shotgun, pass the confidence chamber (tear-gas-filled chamber), PT, and the basic essentials on Navy life. Recruits also attend many classes throughout boot camp on subjects such as Equal Opportunity, Sexual Assault Victim Intervention, Uniform Code of Military Justice, recognition of naval aircraft and vessels, U.S. naval history, and more. In order for recruits to pass boot camp, they are physically and mentally tested on a 12-hour exercise called Battle Stations which consists of 12 different scenarios involving firefighting, navigating smoke filled compartments, first-aid knowledge, survival at sea, mass casualties, shipboard flood control, bomb detection, and many other skills that they have been learning in the previous 7 weeks."

Enlisted personnel specialise on the job and get promoted based on experience. So Rand, who is a petty officer first class, would have all the above training plus her years of experience in whatever she was doing up until now, plus her skills as Kirk's yeoman. Mears is younger, possibly more junior, but her basic training would cover the same stuff, which very likely would include basic operation of Starfleet vehicles.

One could argue that basic training would not automatically cover helm or navigation (traditionally officer territory) but not exclusively since both Rand and O'Brien (albeit experienced petty officers) also appear to be trained.

At any rate, I stand by my initial point that Spock was not 'essential' to fly the shuttle.

I suppose another way to frame it is to ask whether they have ever featured any Starfleet character in any discipline, of any rank, who was stated to have been unable to pilot a shuttle?
 
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Mears must be qualified to do something. She is armed with a phaser and doesn't spend any time assisting Scotty in any meaningful way so maybe she is trained in security?

The yeoman's duty appears to be collecting data documenting everything.
 
I agree stun would not likely work on a creature that large. This would be very un-Starfleet but setting phasers to burn and lighting the fur coats on fire might cause the creatures to back off for a while... :whistle:
That might make them madder.

As comical as they look now, story-wise they were about the same size as that mutated, mercury poisoned bear in PROPHECY…worse than a Mugato.
 
Piloting a shuttlecraft should be simply like driving a delivery van or small bus. Today (in the USA) just about everyone by age 16 in trained (i.e. driver license) to drive any car and van (automatic transmissions make it even easier). Even now, some cars can drive themselves in routine road conditions, so, I expect that shuttlecraft are at least this capable. High speed, off-road and extreme maneuvering usually takes a little more training hence they get the "pilot" qualification. :techman:
 
Piloting a shuttlecraft should be simply like driving a delivery van or small bus. Today (in the USA) just about everyone by age 16 in trained (i.e. driver license) to drive any car and van (automatic transmissions make it even easier). Even now, some cars can drive themselves in routine road conditions, so, I expect that shuttlecraft are at least this capable. High speed, off-road and extreme maneuvering usually takes a little more training hence they get the "pilot" qualification. :techman:
Yeah that's pretty much how I see it. Some people can perform stunt flying and tricky manoeuvres. Flying off the planet would be a standard manoeuvre. Avoiding crashing due to the Murasaki effect might be very difficult. I am not sure that the original plan was to pilot to safety but to try and maintain a stable enough orbit using the gravity of the planet to protect them from the distortion of the quasar for long enough to get a clearer distress signal out.

Nowhere has it ever been stated that Spock is an ace pilot. One assumes, since he chooses to fly the shuttle that nobody is significantly better than him, I suppose, so it may be that, as senior officer, he just chose to fly it. If Sulu was aboard and Spock still chose to fly it, we might be in Deanna Troi territory.

The yeoman's duty appears to be collecting data documenting everything.
Her job is data collection (which is actually done by the tricorder which any of them could switch on) but that that says nothing about her qualifications. I don't think yeomen exclusively study coffee making, PADD passing, and tricorder switching on and off, with extra classes in flirting (although Pike was very upset that his yeoman died (allegedly), so maybe).

If Rand had featured, I would have made her be the one to suggest using the phasers to power the shuttle since she had a kernel of a 'make do and mend' vibe going on and it's an idea with pros and cons.
 
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She may not just collect it but utilize different computer programs to analyze it. Some are more like statisticians/technicians and analysts - the computer would collect the data but the yeomen have to interpret it and draw real-world conclusions, and write reports on their initial findings, to be refined by experts in that field. So less 9-5 and more Hidden Figures.
 
She may not just collect it but utilize different computer programs to analyze it. Some are more like statisticians/technicians and analysts - the computer would collect the data but the yeomen have to interpret it and draw real-world conclusions, and write reports on their initial findings, to be refined by experts in that field. So less 9-5 and more Hidden Figures.
I would have thought technicians in the science departments were more likely to do analysis but Rand certainly collated scientific reports.
 
Science technicians can do the more in-depth, specialized work; yeomen might deliver the kind of initial report/summary anyone could prepare with basic knowledge.
 
Piloting a shuttlecraft should be simply like driving a delivery van or small bus. Today (in the USA) just about everyone by age 16 in trained (i.e. driver license) to drive any car and van (automatic transmissions make it even easier). Even now, some cars can drive themselves in routine road conditions, so, I expect that shuttlecraft are at least this capable. High speed, off-road and extreme maneuvering usually takes a little more training hence they get the "pilot" qualification. :techman:
I think getting a shuttlecraft into the shuttlebay may take a little more skill that parking one's car in a garage. Especially in dangerous circumstances. I sure wouldn't want a stewardess landing an airliner in a thunderstorm.
 
I just figured he wouldn't ask someone else to do something dangerous/die when he could make the sacrifice; he wouldn't pull rank and sacrifice those below his position.

If Spock felt he would give the shuttle a better chance of returning to the ship, he would leave someone else behind.

Compassion isn’t his strong point. As the episode itself lampshades with the whole burial thing.
 
I think getting a shuttlecraft into the shuttlebay may take a little more skill that parking one's car in a garage. Especially in dangerous circumstances. I sure wouldn't want a stewardess landing an airliner in a thunderstorm.
Most airplane processes are automated and I suspect pilots usually are not required to perform manual landings except where autpilot cannot be used for some reason or as part of ongoing training.

It is interesting that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are all singled out for shuttle missions without dedicated pilots. Again, the reason may have been budgetary, but I would have thought every mission should come with a pilot and co-pilot. It doesn't make much sense for senior officers to fly solo, even if they are qualified as advanced pilots.

Kirk's decision in Immunity Syndrome to only send one person might have been influenced by the power drain phenomenon but in any other hazardous circumstances, you would definitely want a qualified pilot as your go-to guy/gal so the science guy/gal was free to do their work.

One suggestion has been that captains' yeomen could be trained pilots to act as drivers for their bosses on lower risk diplomatic missions. It would have been an easy way to give them something to do.
 
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I think getting a shuttlecraft into the shuttlebay may take a little more skill that parking one's car in a garage. Especially in dangerous circumstances. I sure wouldn't want a stewardess landing an airliner in a thunderstorm.
Does it, though? My understanding has been that shuttles are usually tractor beamed into the bay. Indeed, in TFF even a pilot as skilled as Sulu looks uncomfortable when Kirk orders him to fly the shuttle in manually.
 
Does it, though? My understanding has been that shuttles are usually tractor beamed into the bay. Indeed, in TFF even a pilot as skilled as Sulu looks uncomfortable when Kirk orders him to fly the shuttle in manually.
I don't recall tractor beams being used for that on a regular basis.
 
Does it, though? My understanding has been that shuttles are usually tractor beamed into the bay. Indeed, in TFF even a pilot as skilled as Sulu looks uncomfortable when Kirk orders him to fly the shuttle in manually.
I don't recall tractor beams being used for that on a regular basis.
Probably just automatic guidance by linking computers for Federation vessels. It's case of real world technology overtaking fictional 60's technology.
 
Yeah; I guess my main point was that it's automated (in whatever manner) the vast majority of the time.
 
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