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Spidey OUT of MCU

What are you talking about?

ANY agreement is LAID OUT in a written contract with clauses specifying what is allowed, which side is responsible for, and which side gets what monies. Given there is NO FURTHER AGREEMENT - I'd say Sony has whatever was considered part of the "Spiderman Pantheon" (my term, who knows how it's described in the actual contract) under whatever film licencing agreement they had in place prior to the (now defunct and no longer in place) SONY/MCU 'sharing agreement.

SONY has "Spiderman" pursuant to whatever their previous licensing contract (still in force because if it wasn't, Disney would HAVE the character to use as they please.)

It's clear Disney was banking on/ and hoping they could continue and hammer out another 'sharing' agreement, but since they didn't, you can be sure they will hold Sony to whatever the original agreement Sony had with Marvel to use the "Spiderman Pantheon" and if Sony violates anything Disney/Marvel WOULD pounce to reclaim the character.

I'm talking common sense.
If two companies do a contract to share and cross over characters - NO chance in hell that they leave out the part what happens after their collaboration is finished!

So OF COURSE their contract for homecoming/FFH specifies weather or not this Spider-Man is allowed to namedrop Stark or the avengers after the contract is over. Leaving that part out would be ludicrous!

That's billion dollar companies. Not amateur writers and armchair lawyers. They have professional lawyers to put in safeguards so that no-one side gets completely screwed over once the contract is finished. Where the hell did you get the idea they would have to revert back to the state before they ever talked in the first place? They have shared property! Of course they have a common sense divorce contract in place!
 
Hey, did Sony only get Miles because of the Marvel deal, or does he convey with Spidey?
 
That's billion dollar companies. Not amateur writers and armchair lawyers.

I don't. In my mind, Universal gone and fucked up when they only got rights to release a Hulk film not rights to the character himself. Disney/Marvel found a lovely way to cut Universal out of any money.

The lawyers should've seen that coming.

So, they might be lawyers, they might have gone to the best schools, but, they are still human. Which means, they could still be idiots.
 
Yeah, the fucking Tesseract, which was nothing but a MacGuffin to tie into other movies.

Cap fighting Nazis who had weird superweapons was always a part of his stories. And the Skull using the Cosmic Cube is iconic too, even if the Tesseract isn't exactly the same Cube.

And I loathed the fact that they chose to rush the character into the present day at the end so that he could be part of the goddamned Avengers, instead of letting him go on to do his thing during WWII. Time that was spent on that nonsense, which in no way improved the film, took away from what was otherwise a really lovely period piece.

Yes, how dare they be faithful to how he got frozen and thawed out in the present...
 
That does bring up the point though that there is the possibility of doing another Captain America film set during WWII. It would be cool to see Namor introduced as a member of the Invaders before he starts messing with Reed Richards.
 
I don't. In my mind, Universal gone and fucked up when they only got rights to release a Hulk film not rights to the character himself. Disney/Marvel found a lovely way to cut Universal out of any money.

The lawyers should've seen that coming.

So, they might be lawyers, they might have gone to the best schools, but, they are still human. Which means, they could still be idiots.

They actually saw that coming, but weighted the benefits higher - remember, this was before "Avengers" or "Dark Knight". No one knew how big comic book movies would get. And the deal was essentially - Marvel makes a "incredible Hulk" movie, and universal gets parts of the profits without ever having to lift a finger.

Sure, in retrospect that looks like a big mistake - like selling your shares in the Apple company for a Lamborghini, right before the company got big.

But that's really only with the benefit of hindsight. In an environment where the MCU simply hadn't existed yet, and the biggest a comicbook movie ever had gotten was the Sam Raimi movies - this was not a bad deal for universal.

They didn't got out-lawyered. They got screwed by circumstances - their once worthless property suddenly becoming big. Something that MARVEL also had experience in - when they sold their movie rights in the first place.
 
Cap fighting Nazis who had weird superweapons was always a part of his stories. And the Skull using the Cosmic Cube is iconic too, even if the Tesseract isn't exactly the same Cube.



Yes, how dare they be faithful to how he got frozen and thawed out in the present...

I think the point wasn't that he was frozen in ice as part of the greater narrative, but rather that the film devoted too much screen time to that.

Might be wrong.
 
I think the point wasn't that he was frozen in ice as part of the greater narrative, but rather that the film devoted too much screen time to that.

Might be wrong.

That's a rather meaningless distinction when the film barely devoted any screentime to it at all. Like 3 minutes at the start and 3 at the end of a 2 hour movie. I mean, I wouldn't have minded cutting out the intro entirely, but it'd still only save 3 minutes for other material.
 
That's a rather meaningless distinction when the film barely devoted any screentime to it at all. Like 3 minutes at the start and 3 at the end of a 2 hour movie. I mean, I wouldn't have minded cutting out the intro entirely, but it'd still only save 3 minutes for other material.

A lot can happen in three minutes.
 
It was the being frozen itself.

Yeah, long after Cap's initial game in comics, Marvel concocted the Capsicle to bring him back - and then did fuck-all interesting with him for years and years.

Johnson did a marvelous period film, and I'd have liked to see another. I mean, fuck the Avengers. I don't buy a ticket to admire Feige's mastery of franchise planning.

One of the things I love about Spidey-Holland is the return to the character's origins as an awkward teenager living in the city and struggling with adolescent shit. They're handling that beautifully. If he never fights another CG alien Menace to Earth, that's cool.
 
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They actually saw that coming, but weighted the benefits higher - remember, this was before "Avengers" or "Dark Knight". No one knew how big comic book movies would get. And the deal was essentially - Marvel makes a "incredible Hulk" movie, and universal gets parts of the profits without ever having to lift a finger.

Sure, in retrospect that looks like a big mistake - like selling your shares in the Apple company for a Lamborghini, right before the company got big.

But that's really only with the benefit of hindsight. In an environment where the MCU simply hadn't existed yet, and the biggest a comicbook movie ever had gotten was the Sam Raimi movies - this was not a bad deal for universal.

They didn't got out-lawyered. They got screwed by circumstances - their once worthless property suddenly becoming big. Something that MARVEL also had experience in - when they sold their movie rights in the first place.

A lawyers job is to see outcomes. Especially negative ones. That’s why contracts exist. But we agree: it was a mistake. I see it as one the lawyers should’ve seen coming.
 
It was the being frozen itself.

So being true to the characters' history, you're opposed to?

Yeah, long after Cap's initial game in comics, Marvel concocted the Capsicle to bring him back - and then did fuck-all interesting with him for years and years.

And the MCU did plenty interesting with him in the modern day right off the bat.

Johnson did a marvelous period film, and I'd have liked to see another. I mean, fuck the Avengers. I don't buy a ticket to admire Feige's mastery of franchise planning.

So you don't see the big picture. Cap getting frozen after having a few war adventures is key to his character has been for 50 years.

One of the things I love about Spidey-Holland is the return to the character's origins as an awkward teenager living in the city and struggling with adolescent shit. They're handling that beautifully. If he never fights another CG alien Menace to Earth, that's cool.

That's outdated. We've seen it enough and now it's time for something to develop beyond the basic early premise.
 
Again, oh please MARVEL facing bankruptcy wasn't due to the fact the "FF as a concept was not succeeding" as you put it

Wrong again; their own properties were struggling--again, needing a film adaptation to pull them back from financial collapse, which is one of the reasons Marvel tried to aggressively license its properties to film studios in the 70s (with Lee as the point man trying to shop characters to studios big and small) but there rests the truth of Marvel's problems, as in the specific case of the FF, it was not relevant as a whole property to the film industry, either. In the mid 70s, when Frank Price--the Senior VP of Universal/MCA-TV--optioned a few Marvel characters (most notably the one jewel in the form of the Hulk), they obtained the Human Torch, but separated him from the rest of the FF concept and wanted to develop that as a pilot--a solo act. That was not greenlit, but it had nothing to do with myths of FX practicality, budget or anything else, but whatever appeal Price believed that one FF character had. Speaks volumes.

Next, the FF's only non-comic media presence in that decade was the abysmal DePatie–Freleng Enterprises cartoon from 1978, which was considered unappealing to anyone who might be familiar with the comic's heydays and/or general young audiences (the opposite effect of Hanna-Barbera's adaptation from 1967-68). No shock that it was quickly cancelled mid-season after only 13 episodes. It lacked the heart of what placed the FF on the map as a major comic creation (in the 1960s), much like what was happening to comic at that time. There was never any quality/appeal consistency with the FF after the 60s a problem that was shared by many Marvel titles in the 70s--the late 70s in particular.

So, you can believe whatever you want, but as far as the MCU is concerned, the FF would be best served not following the failures of four previous FF films set in contemporary times and branch off on their own. They do not need to be shoehorned into the already congested MCU. Once again, an origin story set in the past certainly worked in Wonder Woman and Captain America: The First Avenger. No one in their right mind would ever argue against those examples.

On topic, thankfully, Spider-Man is no longer a part of the MCU, and with hope, the plots will return to the kind of action/drama-cum-character studies that turned the character into a phenomenon in the mid 60s.
 
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