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Speed of Comms

Penta

Commander
Red Shirt
Totally outside of comms moving at the speed of plot, how fast communications travel would decide a lot about the Trek Universe. (For instance, instantaneous comms a la "Ender's Game"'s Ansible would create much different dynamics than if it takes a day for a message to get from Earth to Bajor.)

So...Just how fast does it take for messages to get:

A. Earth to Alpha Centauri?
B. Earth to Vulcan?
C. Earth to Qo'Onos?

Presume TNG-NEM tech.
 
If we take into consideration that SF uses subspace relay stations throughout Federation territory, they are essentially used as signal amplifiers which serve a similar purpose as the Hirogen communication array that spanned through the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant (but the Feds use them on a much smaller scale obviously).
The NX-01 used their own small versions of signal boosters designated as 'Echo 1', 'Echo 2', etc. to communicate with SF in real time through large distances.

When it comes to calculating the distances and the time lag between the messages ... you would first have to know the location of the nearest subspace relay station in relation to the place you want to contact.
So for example, if a specific target is Ly's away from the nearest comm station and out of immediate comm range, it's easy to say that the said transmission will need time to reach it, but to my knowledge we only know that transmissions usually travel at FTL velocities ... how many times faster than light though is unfamiliar.

Since we know that Vulcan is inside Federation territory, communications are instantaneous usually.
Same goes for the Klingon home-world as both the Klingon Empire and the Federation would link their own comm stations as a result of the alliance and both organizations use similar communication methods.

As for Alpha Centauri ... I think it's possible communications would be instantaneous if you are inside Federation space.
Beverly (who was in Wesley's warp bubble and not aware of it) advised the computer to sent a transmission to A.C. informing them of the ships arrival.
Enterprise was from her POV still inside Federation space.
I just don't recall why she never tried talking with them over subspace directly.
It's possible she was out of real-time communication range and that was the reason, but nothing of the sort was stated in the episode so we have no way of knowing for certain.
 
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Yup, I'd say instantaneous communications for A and B. And the speed of C would depend on the weight of the bribe.

As long as one remains within reach of an unbroken chain of comm relays, distance won't matter, at least not for the first ten thousand lightyears or so. We've seen our heroes maintain instantaneous contact whenever they are on a Federation world, after all. A starship in unexplored or hostile space might loiter so far from the comm chain, though, that the messages would have to spend quite some time reaching the nearest relay.

The TNG Tech Manual suggests that messages travel at weally weally high warp speeds between relays ("60 times faster than the highest predicted starship speed" is the purposefully ambiguous speed value given there), but the book also says the messages abruptly lose speed after traveling a certain distance. For Galaxy class transmitters, that distance is about 22 lightyears; for weaker transmitters, it might be less. So a ship within 22 ly of the comm chain might have insta-comms, while another 1 ly of sailing might cause a comm delay of a full year! A very nice setup for explaining away all the inconsistencies in the episodes and movies.

Timo Saloniemi
 
That whole signal surfacing out of subspace thing beyond 22 ly or so does present some problems - either instant comms within range of the network or lightspeed only to the nearest relay station once the signals surface.

I can't remember if starfleet actually received some sort of transmission from "Friendship One" in the Delta Quadrant or not in the related VOY episode, but I'd like to assume that the surfacing phenomenon is inversely related to signal propagation speed, which is to say that slower signals might stay "submerged" in subspace over much greater distances than 22 ly. The relatively primitive subspace transmitter on Friendship One could then be said to send signals slow enough to reach Fed space but remain FTL all the way. Similarly, Fed ships on long range exploration missions might have to "ramp down" their subspace comms signal speeds to ensure they stay FTL to the nearest relay station, once again, as Timo says, explaining seemingly inconsistent comms delays in some episodes nicely.

On a related note, perhaps "transwarp" comms systems like the network the Hirogen took over might not have propagation speeds much, if any, faster than standard subspace radio, but with no signal surfacing problems except perhaps over intergalactic distances.
 
That whole signal surfacing out of subspace thing beyond 22 ly or so does present some problems - either instant comms within range of the network or lightspeed only to the nearest relay station once the signals surface.
We probably have to assume there's some fuzziness close to the dropoff point, so that the message first slows down slightly to account for all those instances of couple of hours or days of delay, and only then degrades to STL...

Then again, signal delay is a rare event in Star Trek: it's only really witnessed in "The Enterprise Incident" and "The Defector" IIRC. There is some delay in establishing communications in, say, "Ensigns of Command", but after the initial fuss the comms then become instantaneous. Probably a matter of interfacing a number of alien relay networks with the Starfleet/Federation one (such networks put all together should cover most of the galaxy by now, one would think).

So perhaps the dropoff really is sharp as a knife, and the delays in those episodes are rare coincidences. Or not really coincidences, but rather the result of Romulan jamming or Romulan search-and-destroy-comm-relays sorties in the vicinity of their Neutral Zone.

I can't remember if starfleet actually received some sort of transmission from "Friendship One" in the Delta Quadrant or not in the related VOY episode, but I'd like to assume that the surfacing phenomenon is inversely related to signal propagation speed, which is to say that slower signals might stay "submerged" in subspace over much greater distances than 22 ly.
Might be that. But it might also simply be that the more powerful signal stays up there longer, and the interstellar insta-signals we usually get are powered by planetary arrays much more potent than a Galaxy class ship's transmitter. It just suffices to feed that signal strength to the system at some point, not necessarily at every relay and endpoint. (It would take some Treknobabble to explain how that's possible, but still...)

Friendship 1 did seem to remain in constant contact with home base, as Janeway had this to say:

Janeway: "In any case, we lost contact with the probe one hundred and thirty years ago but, its last known co-ordinates..."
That is, the probe was launched in 2067, and lost in the 2240s, at a time when it was already in the Beta/Delta Quadrant border. Its location was known with pinpoint accuracy - all Voyager had to do was fly a sublight search grid. That would seem to imply fast communications across vast distances. Granted, news of the loss might have taken decades to reach Earth, and the 2240s date would have become known only when the last transmission faded out sometime in the 24th century. But the loss was already known at least in Harry Kim's childhood, so the delay would be at most one century across some 30,000 ly. And that's without a working relay chain for most of the distance.

Also remember how Data seemed to think it would take mere three centuries to send a message across intergalactic distances in "Where No One Has Gone Before". Perhaps with just a little extra oomph to the signal, you get much greater persistence at subspace, and very, very fast communications across immense ranges. But if the Galaxy really has the ability to produce that extra oomph in a cinch, why the standard limitation of 22.65 ly?

Perhaps it's a matter of bandwidth? A "Hi!" can carry across hundreds of thousands of lightyears, but a "Hi there!" peters out at mere thousands, and a meaningful data burst barely clears the first few dozen lightyears before degrading. Subspace telescopes could then see across vast ranges by utilizing very simple pulses, but those pulses would not do much good as a means of communication. And the E-D could send a special "distress pulse" from one galaxy to another, but would not be able to relay back her findings or ask for instructions.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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