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SPECTRE - Grading & Discussion

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Starkers said:
Can you clarify the canon explanation for why Bond isn't allowed to fall in love? Also can you clarify why he was allowed to fall in love with Tracy and Vesper (in both the books and the films). I'd argue there were other girls he clearly felt very strongly about (Kara, Paris, Natalia). There's no reason Bond can't fall in love, I would agree that it happened surprisingly quickly in this however which bugged me too).
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I don't think it is so much that Bond cannot fall in love or has not fallen in love in the past (he is human after all), rather it is just something very unwise to do in his profession because it could compromise his objectivity. It might even be something that Double O agents are stronly discouraged from during training. Love can cloud your judgment which is not a good thing when you are on an important national security mission. The woman could turn out to be an enemy agent. Or the enemy could kidnap her to coerce you into illegal actions. Or the enemy could kill her and the resulting heartache could impair your actions or reason.
 
Who said he fell head-over-heels in love? In many previous films (and books) we've seen him making out with the girl at the end. In this one he's just driving off with her for a vacation for all we know. It's unlikely he'll leave the service so she probably will end up doing what she initially planned to do and walk away from him.
 
No, it was pretty clear that he was supposed to have made a seismic decision. Earlier, she said something to the effect that she couldn't face this life anymore and left Bond on the London street. When he subsequently walked away with her and left Blofeld on the street, it was very clearly implied that he'd made a decision to jack in his 00 status and settle down with her.

Of course, the way Blofeld watched them walk down the street makes me think that this won't work out too well for James and Madelaine.
 
^^ It's not at all clear and closed. If Craig fulfills his contract and does at least one more it's easily explained why the girl is gone and Bond is still on the job.
 
^ Very easily. We get a rerun of the ending of OHMSS to kick off a movie with a vengeful Bond returning to hunt down Blofeld. The movie DAF should have bee.
 
Pierce Brosnan Offended By Way New James Bond Holds Gun

HOLLYWOOD—According to a source close to Pierce Brosnan, the former James Bond actor felt affronted by the performance of Daniel Craig in the latest Bond film, Casino Royale. "Pierce just felt that he should have carried his gun in such a way that people knew it was James Bond they were dealing with, and not some 'first-year Bobby who doesn't know the first difference between an Aston Martin that transforms into a snowmobile and one that turns into a submarine,'" said the source, who added that Brosnan said the Bond girl bedded by Craig may have appeared attracted to him, but he could tell she was faking it. "Pierce felt the performance was amateur and that in general the film lacked a certain je ne sais quoi." Former Bond actor Roger Moore reportedly agreed with Brosnan's assessment and added that, while he was glad to see someone other than Timothy Dalton in the role, no actor has delivered the pithy elegance befitting 007 since 1979's Moonraker.
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DarthTom said:
Terrible film IMO. The only redeeming part of the film was the Mexico city scenes in the opening. From there - down hill.

Problems with the film:

1. Spectre's global plans were fuzzy at best. World-wide spying on people - to what end?

2. The villain was anti-climactic to me and his lifelong obsession with Bond was sophomoric. He's mad at daddy because daddy went rock climing with James as a boy. WTF?

3. Who the fuck builds a planetarium type building to display meteor in the desert? And why?

3. James of course doesn't forget who she is and the brain surgery fails. Roll eyes

4. Trains without passengers traveling in the middle of the desert? Roll Eyes. OH and where were the train porters and staff while Bond was fighting?

5. The super Bond explosive watch that apparently can destroy an entire complex powered by solar power - utterly perposeteous.

6. Big time nitpick - James Bond is not supposed to fall in love with his female co-stars firstly. Secondly, who the fuck falls madly in love on the first date, least of all James Bond?

7. Super villains white Persian long haired cat - who he if you caught it seemed to hate after dusting the hair off his suit after holding the animal.

There were just so many plot holes and unbelievably preposterous premises in this film that weren't even tied together correctly IMO. The largest one IMO being making Spectre's whole reason for existence a let down.

D IMO
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Have you ever seen a Bond film? Why does Bond fall for her? Because she's a gorgeous, French, blond woman 20 years younger than him.

SPECTRE'S whole plan on spying on people could be endlessly useful and exploited.

Most of these points seem petty, plenty of movies have plot holes (and real ones not "plot hole" as-in "this thing slightly doesn't make sense.")

The explosive watch is one of the most ridiculous gadget Bond has ever had?
 
DarthTom said:
1. Spectre's global plans were fuzzy at best. World-wide spying on people - to what end?
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This actually made a lot of sense to me. Knowledge is power. It would certainly be very useful for a global terrorist network like SPECTRE to have a global intelligence program. They would have all kinds of useful economic, political and military data that they could use to plan attacks, extortions, their human trafficking business, etc...
 
Timby said:
Warped9 said:
^^ It's not at all clear and closed. If Craig fulfills his contract
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Craig's contract is fulfilled.
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Yeah, although Bond producer Michael G. Wilson expects Daniel Craig to return - even though he admits he's not contracted for another.

I think a lot hinges on the bidding auction that won't be resolved until January or February. If Bond ends up in another distributor's hands - like say Warner Bros. or 20th Century Fox - then they have free reign to pursue another actor as Bond. If Bond stays with MGM, then I can see Craig returning for one more. This likely won't be figured out until early spring 2016 at best, so we'll see what the final numbers for Spectre are and that'll likely help determine whether or not Craig comes back.

captaindemotion wrote:
^ Very easily. We get a rerun of the ending of OHMSS to kick off a movie with a vengeful Bond returning to hunt down Blofeld. The movie DAF should have bee.
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I could totally see this happening but my problem is I didn't buy Bond falling in love with Swann and vice versa. Bond's relationship with Tracey in On Her Majesty's Secret Service? I could totally see that. Bond falling for Vesper in Casino Royale? Totally plausible. Bond and Swann? There just wasn't enough there for me to buy Bond falling in love with Swann and absconding with her. I found her to be tolerable at best and her dynamic with Bond to be humdrum.

Now, if Swann dies at the end of Bond 25 and they build Bond and Swann's relationship, then I could see that having some sort of emotional weight but if Swann dies in the opening sequence of the next Bond flick then I'm going to just... not care. It won't have the same emotional weight for me as Tracey's death or Vesper's.
 
Gil T.Azell said:
Enjoyed it fast paced..
Seeing Dave Bautista thinking here's your new Jaws,
" Oh shit"
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Fast paced? Did they show a different version in your theatre? My buddy and I both thought it was about 1/2 hour too long. There were several instances where it just seemed to drag, and moments of dead air they seemed to put in for dramatic pause but it just dragged the scene down.

We both agreed it wasn't that great of a movie.
 
Starkers said:
Can you clarify the canon explanation for why Bond isn't allowed to fall in love? Also can you clarify why he was allowed to fall in love with Tracy and Vesper (in both the books and the films). I'd argue there were other girls he clearly felt very strongly about (Kara, Paris, Natalia).
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And, personally, I think he & Elektra King would have totally worked out had she not turned out to be evil in The World Is Not Enough.
 
The Craig Bond movies, at least for me, have only really shown one woman he really cared about and that was Vesper Lynd. Even though she "betrayed" him (she saved his life for the price of her own in fact) and he outwardly appeared to not care. "The bitch is dead" was his exact quote but it seemed the opposite was quite true.

So it's a bit unbelievable (as far as one can talk about believability in a Bond movie) that he would fall for this woman with whom he had little, if any, chemistry as opposed to Vesper (they even allude to it in the movie when Bond sorts through VHS tapes in Mr. White's hideout and sees one labeled "Vesper's interrogation" and he lingers on for quite a while deep in thoughts).

Craig is contracted for one more Bond movie but it appears to be seen if he really does it given his recent remarks about being burned out on Bond (and the movie showed it i'm afraid). If so i don't expect her to return (I've already forgotten her name and it's been a week since i saw the movie) and if they bother they'll do some lines why she's gone or even a short scene showing her leave (or get killed).
 
jbohn said:
Gil T.Azell said:
Enjoyed it fast paced..
Seeing Dave Bautista thinking here's your new Jaws,
" Oh shit"
Click to expand...

Fast paced? Did they show a different version in your theatre? My buddy and I both thought it was about 1/2 hour too long. There were several instances where it just seemed to drag, and moments of dead air they seemed to put in for dramatic pause but it just dragged the scene down.

We both agreed it wasn't that great of a movie.
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I agree it dragged.

We start with that long pretentious shot of Bond and that girl to their hotel room


Bond in Tangier basically doing nothing but interrogating a mouse



I also though Bond in a Boat VS a Helicopter could have been more exciting.
 
Gil T.Azell said:
Enjoyed it fast paced..
Seeing Dave Bautista thinking here's your new Jaws
Click to expand...

He could still turn up again !

Well, I saw it this morning. First impressions were that Sam Mendes hasn't exactly coveted himself with glory in either of his Bond films, but this was certainly an improvement on Skyfall.

Pro's ? Less plot stupidity, better story, better villain.

Cons ? Another dire theme song, slightly over-long, anti-climatic ending (both of them), and one of the least attractive female leads of recent years.

And Bond continues to be a ridiculously accurate pistol shot. For gods sake, arrange for an appropriate weapon if the plot calls for a long shot !

Craig continues to be ill served by his films - not as badly as Brosnan was, but Spectre's a solid 'B', somewhere around Quantum. Ahead of Skyfall, but nowhere near the fantastic Casino Royale.

This would be a good last entry for Craig. He's been possibly the best Bond but he's had enough. Connery got there too. If he decides to do another one, great. I'd keep Mendes away though...
 
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