^ Lol, the suggestion of Nolan generally provokes strong reactions one way or the other. Few are on the fence about it!
SPECTRE - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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How was his chemistry with Daniel Craig?
I've seen a few of his films - Prestige (utterly loathed), Inception (indifferent), Interstellar (hated), Batman Begins (indifferent), The Dark Knight (loved), Dark Knight Rises (disliked).
O.K., if it was as good as Dark Knight I'd be happy, but I think that's unlikely given his hit to miss ratio for me...
I thought they worked well together onscreen. Obviously it's a very different chemistry from that between Craig and Dench, as they're two men of similar ages. It's more like looking at two brothers than the mother-son dynamic in the previous 3 films. I don't want to give too much away but suffice it to say that their scenes together are all pretty strong.
^ Good to know. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Fair enough.
IIRC, Nolan was influenced by the Bond series in making Batman Begins. That can be seen in its globe-trotting scale and the fact that he used Ras Al Ghul as the baddie - Denny O'Neill had originally conceived the character as a Bond villain type.
The end of Inception is a total love letter to OHMSS, which I believe is his favourite 007 film.
Oh god yes, more Monica Belluci would have been great. I'm not sure on the romance front, to be honest I've rarely felt Bond is particularly romantic, plus you know he'll have a new girl in the next one: OHMSS for sure is romantic, and I love Bond/Kara in TLD, but its hard to imagine a woman who could hold onto Bond. I actually don't find CR that romantic, the film suffers from the same problem as the book in that Vesper's somewhat insipid. She detests Bond and then she suddenly doesn't. Green just about salvages it but only just.
The final third really needed tightening, I'm never one to demand realism in Bond, but I really think
downing a helicopter with a PPK is ridiculous, the escape from Blofeld's lair was similarly a trifle lame, Bond just shoots a load of guys and...er that's it.It's a shame as what comes before is superb.
I feel like I'm too hard on it, I do really like it, its just a shame because I was loving it up to Tangiers.
I've been a fan of Nolan since Memento, which Relayer1 I would recommend watching, but I find his output increasingly variable. In common with most of the superstar directors (Jackson, Spielberg etc) he seems to have got to that point where he doesn't feel the need to edit any more, and too many of his films feel bloated--the third Batman film being a classic example--that said I really liked Interstellar and I can see a situation where getting Nolan on board might be the cherry on the cake that persuades Craig to do one more.
Am I the only one who'd like to see a Bond film that was perhaps a bit closer to the 2 hour mark though, they're getting longer and more epic all the time and I fear there's a limit to where they can go.
Ironically, the least popular of the Craig movies, QoS, is the shortest by some way.
yeah but firstly QoS is way shorter than 2 hours, it's the shortest Bond film ever I believe. Secondly most of its problems are more to do with the script not having enough work done on it thanks to the writers strike and thirdly, I perversely quite enjoy it, it has a raw, dirty edge that's quite unique. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a great Bond film, I just think it's better than most people do.
I'm just not sure a Bond film needs to be two and a half hours long. For starters they could have lost the train sequence (seriously Oberhauser wants them to come to him so why would he send Hinx to kill them on the way?)
I'm just not sure a Bond film needs to be two and a half hours long. For starters they could have lost the train sequence (seriously Oberhauser wants them to come to him so why would he send Hinx to kill them on the way?)
Just one of the many script issues with SPECTRE, I'm afraid.
Our US friends should visit Rotten Tomatoes. There are pages of reviews from the public. The film's either loved or hated. There's not much middle ground. I gave it 2 out of 5 stars. That said, I'd like to know who voted F in the thread poll!
I watched The Man From UNCLE the other night after visiting the online sweetie shop. I enjoyed that about as much as I did SPECTRE. Mildly diverting for the most part, but entirely unremarkable and unmemorable, although at least UNCLE had some 60's style, glitz and kitsch of which SPECTRE had none.
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In fairness most Bond films have those kind of logical gaps and sometimes the story is more important than logic, I'm just surprised more things aren't picked up in prep--take Silva's ridiculously contrived plan in Skyfall, a simple line to suggest that its just one of myriad contingencies rather than his sole plan all along and, even if the giant plot hole isn't completely sealed, it at least shrinks.
I'm not voting till I've seen it again
I'm not voting till I've seen it again
In fairness most Bond films have those kind of logical gaps and sometimes the story is more important than logic, I'm just surprised more things aren't picked up in prep--take Silva's ridiculously contrived plan in Skyfall, a simple line to suggest that its just one of myriad contingencies rather than his sole plan all along and, even if the giant plot hole isn't completely sealed, it at least shrinks.
I'm not voting till I've seen it again
Large parts of SPECTRE are supposed to have had so many urgent back of a fag packet rewrites and reshoots that I rather doubt prep got a look in. And to be honest, it shows.
Well John Logan’s first draft was supposedly worrying bereft of action, which is when Wade and Purvis were bought back in to try and beef things up, but then later still Jez Butterworth came on board and, given he has a credit, must have done more than just a bit of script doctoring.
I’m guessing Logan won’t be penning the next one, and Wade and Purvis had already walked away (amicably as far as I can tell) before being pulled back in again so I wonder if Butterworth will handle the next one?
Finally review this on my blog, I think the reason I walked out feeling disappointed that this was a solid 7 or 8 out of 10 film was because early on I really did feel it was going to be 9, or even, 10 out of 10—and I’ve now heard a few more reviews that echo that.
I’m guessing Logan won’t be penning the next one, and Wade and Purvis had already walked away (amicably as far as I can tell) before being pulled back in again so I wonder if Butterworth will handle the next one?
Finally review this on my blog, I think the reason I walked out feeling disappointed that this was a solid 7 or 8 out of 10 film was because early on I really did feel it was going to be 9, or even, 10 out of 10—and I’ve now heard a few more reviews that echo that.
I don't know how Logan was ever allowed near a Bond film given his history of flushing other famous and long standing franchises down the toilet. . . .
In fairness most Bond films have those kind of logical gaps and sometimes the story is more important than logic, I'm just surprised more things aren't picked up in prep--take Silva's ridiculously contrived plan in Skyfall, a simple line to suggest that its just one of myriad contingencies rather than his sole plan all along and, even if the giant plot hole isn't completely sealed, it at least shrinks.
I'm not voting till I've seen it again
I'm still unable to forgive the waving a torch around while escaping across a dark moor.
If the plot needed them to be spotted, night vision field glasses would have done...
I'd quite like to read his original NEM script. I do have a feeling that a lot of the finished film's flaws are down to Stuart Baird.
In fairness most Bond films have those kind of logical gaps and sometimes the story is more important than logic, I'm just surprised more things aren't picked up in prep--take Silva's ridiculously contrived plan in Skyfall, a simple line to suggest that its just one of myriad contingencies rather than his sole plan all along and, even if the giant plot hole isn't completely sealed, it at least shrinks.
I'm not voting till I've seen it again
I'm still unable to forgive the waving a torch around while escaping across a dark moor.
If the plot needed them to be spotted, night vision field glasses would have done...
I'm quite forgiving of that to be honest. For one thing it was pitch black and the moors themselves were pretty treacherous, as Bond proved by running onto thin ice, plus Kinkaid might be an experienced gamekeeper, but he's not exactly special forces, and M was too busy bleeding (not to mention probably freezing) to death to be thinking that straight.
Captaindemotion, I wonder what impact Stewart and Spiner had also, but even so the story really doesn't hang together very well.
I remember Logan's first draft was leaked on the internet before NEM was released. The script read a lot better than the final movie we got. So, I do think Baird is responsible for a lot of the film's flaws because he essentially gutted the movie of the many of the strong character moments and reduced it to a series of action sequences. I don't think Logan is a bad screenwriter at all.
Logan has a rather verbose and loquacious style, which is not what one generally thinks of when it comes to any action/thriller, let alone a Bond.
He actually has quite a varied screenwriting career (Rango, The Aviator, Any Given Sunday, Hugo, Gladiator) and Nemesis is probably one of, if not THE, weakest film he has worked on.
For a true guide to his style and, IMO, talent, one only need look at Penny Dreadful, which he showruns and writes every episode. It shows, with a real consistency in tone and character throughout. It's a beautifully made and written show, but it is also very wordy and character driven, rather than plot driven. So the fact that SPECTRE was rewritten to up the action makes be believe we possibly lost quite a few decent character beats and themes, for random train hiJinx.
SPECTRE certainly isn't a terrible film, but, barring the thrilling opening sequence, and a lovely use of the established side characters (M, Q, Moneypenny etc), it was rather a dull and uninvolved affair. At one point, with all of the side-characters truly drawn into the plot, I was wondering if (along with all of the Bond callbacks) they were going to throw in a Mission Impossible motif too. Sadly, not. But it might have injected some fun into proceedings if they had. And with the rather convenient and frankly uninspired main villain, DC's likely last outing feels all rather deflated.
Just-about-a-6/10
Hugo - the author of his own pain
He actually has quite a varied screenwriting career (Rango, The Aviator, Any Given Sunday, Hugo, Gladiator) and Nemesis is probably one of, if not THE, weakest film he has worked on.
For a true guide to his style and, IMO, talent, one only need look at Penny Dreadful, which he showruns and writes every episode. It shows, with a real consistency in tone and character throughout. It's a beautifully made and written show, but it is also very wordy and character driven, rather than plot driven. So the fact that SPECTRE was rewritten to up the action makes be believe we possibly lost quite a few decent character beats and themes, for random train hiJinx.
SPECTRE certainly isn't a terrible film, but, barring the thrilling opening sequence, and a lovely use of the established side characters (M, Q, Moneypenny etc), it was rather a dull and uninvolved affair. At one point, with all of the side-characters truly drawn into the plot, I was wondering if (along with all of the Bond callbacks) they were going to throw in a Mission Impossible motif too. Sadly, not. But it might have injected some fun into proceedings if they had. And with the rather convenient and frankly uninspired main villain, DC's likely last outing feels all rather deflated.
Just-about-a-6/10
Hugo - the author of his own pain
Baird is editor on SPECTRE. I just had a flashback from seeing the opening credits and remembering that my heart sank when I saw his name on the screen. 
So, the original draft was written by Logan, and after numerous rewrites, the film was directed by Mendes, and edited by Baird . . No wonder SPECTRE's not getting great reviews. As Romulan Spy said, Baird reduced Nemesis to a series of action sequences, which is exactly what he's done with SPECTRE, and many of them really aren't up to much.
So, the original draft was written by Logan, and after numerous rewrites, the film was directed by Mendes, and edited by Baird . . No wonder SPECTRE's not getting great reviews. As Romulan Spy said, Baird reduced Nemesis to a series of action sequences, which is exactly what he's done with SPECTRE, and many of them really aren't up to much.
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