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species strength question

Emperor Tiberius said:
Some geneticists believed that the extra organs, notably the third lung, evolved to give Klingons greater stamina on the battlefield.

Heh, that would say a lot about the Klingons if their civilization spent enough time fighting battles that they could evolve whole new sets of organs.

Also it's hilarious that they've got like five hearts and eighty testicles, but never evolved the capacity to self-repair nerve tissue.
 
Therefore, it's hardly sexist to depict her occasionally struggling with a heavy object or being weaker than her large, male cohorts.

But if you apply that same formula to males of the show they would be lifting only about hundred pounds or so...

It seemed to me that writers of the show just forgot that Vulcans were supposed to be much stronger than humans.
 
Therefore, it's hardly sexist to depict her occasionally struggling with a heavy object or being weaker than her large, male cohorts.

But if you apply that same formula to males of the show they would be lifting only about hundred pounds or so...

It seemed to me that writers of the show just forgot that Vulcans were supposed to be much stronger than humans.

Which males? Vulcans? Humans? What do you mean, and which scenes disagree with whatever you're referencing?

Also, there are complications of balance, etc. A Vulcan might possess three times your strength, but if he's the same weight as you, he's still going to have a tough time reaching out and lifting a bag o' barbells - because he'd topple over if he doesn't properly brace himself.
 
A human female that looks like Kira? No.

Why?

Because I'd be able to take down a woman that looks like Kira with a finger of my left hand. And I'm above average strength, but not even big.
A big guy would have no problem with a woman at all. It's only in movies that you see a guy trying to beat up a girl and she runs away and fights back. I always laugh when I see those Michael Douglass flicks where he gets beat up by 110 lb women :lol:
 
Which males? Vulcans? Humans? What do you mean, and which scenes disagree with whatever you're referencing?

Humans. And it has been a while since I've seen the show, so I certainly cannot recall any specific scenes. I cannot however recall that T'pol had ever exhibited any signs of exceptional strength. I also have a distinct impression that most of the fistfights were conducted by the males, occasionally while T'pol stood helplessly aside doing nothing, even though her superior strength should have made her much more capable combatant than Archer or Trip. But that is just my hazy recollection of things, so someone with better memory can either confirm or contradict my impressions.
 
Also it's hilarious that they've got like five hearts and eighty testicles, but never evolved the capacity to self-repair nerve tissue.

:lol::lol::lol:


hahaha, I nearly fell out of my chair reading this.

Like I said, it's silly to have Klingons have all those extra organs and build them up as these ultimate fighting machine warriors that could make mince meat out of current day mixed martial arts fighters,...and then expect the audience to buy that Starfleet officer humans/humanoids can so easily pull some "learn to protect yourself" self-defense class karate move on a Klingon that has them on the floor.
 
Because I'd be able to take down a woman that looks like Kira with a finger of my left hand. And I'm above average strength, but not even big.
A big guy would have no problem with a woman at all. It's only in movies that you see a guy trying to beat up a girl and she runs away and fights back. I always laugh when I see those Michael Douglass flicks where he gets beat up by 110 lb women :lol:

I'm quite confident that there are several female martial artist weighting no more than Nana Visitor that could beat you, me and Michael Douglass with little difficulty. Unless you happen to be world class martial artist of course. I'm sure I'm not, nor is Michael Douglass, and apparently that klingon wasn't either.
 
Which males? Vulcans? Humans? What do you mean, and which scenes disagree with whatever you're referencing?

Humans. And it has been a while since I've seen the show, so I certainly cannot recall any specific scenes. I cannot however recall that T'pol had ever exhibited any signs of exceptional strength. I also have a distinct impression that most of the fistfights were conducted by the males, occasionally while T'pol stood helplessly aside doing nothing, even though her superior strength should have made her much more capable combatant than Archer or Trip. But that is just my hazy recollection of things, so someone with better memory can either confirm or contradict my impressions.
I just happened to see and ENT episode today where T'Pol is sparring with male MACO, who's maybe twice her size and holding her own. (until she gets distracted by Trip and he lands a lucky punch)
 
I just happened to see and ENT episode today where T'Pol is sparring with male MACO, who's maybe twice her size and holding her own. (until she gets distracted by Trip and he lands a lucky punch)

Yes, I remember the sparring scene. But that was not a real fight, they are pulling their punches anyway when sparring.
 
^ After a certain point, skill won't help you defeat a stronger opponent. That's only in the movies. That only works when they are close in strength. I'll never buy Kira taking out that Klingon, unless Bajor women are a lot stronger than human women, which might as well be the case.

What does Kira need strength for? Or even skill? She's fighting with a gun against people with swords!

That she takes down one guy towards the tail end of the fight while using a sharp elbow is hardly indicative of superior strength or superior fighting skills - only of the fact that she's had it easy until then, while the Klingons have been moving and sweating and swinging swords and getting beaten. And the stab wound she received an eyeblink before need not have "kicked in" yet; we do see this happen just a few seconds later, taking her down, but initial shock could keep her from feeling the pain or the weakness.

Imagine if a man was bleeding out. His only hope would not be a transfusion from a horseshoe crab or common octopus. Likewise, red iron blood (or pink iron blood--hemerythrin?--if you wish) is not likely to prolong the life of a man whose biology runs on a copper-based respiratory pigment.

Let's remember it wasn't a blood transfusion that would have saved the Romulan. It was a blood component transfusion - "compatible ribosomes". No need to involve the red or green blood cells there in any way (those could probably be replicated in bulk anyway, as Picard immediately suggests replication as the remedy to the Romulan's shortage). And if anything is compatible between Trek humanoid species who are known to be capable of interbreeding, it's ribosomes...

Because I'd be able to take down a woman that looks like Kira with a finger of my left hand. And I'm above average strength, but not even big.

Not in the scene as depicted. She'd have a gun.

Hell, even having a knife would save her from you, because the use of a knife doesn't require any strength in the usual case. Your only hope would be to punch or kick her before she managed to employ weapons against you - another thing where strength plays no role, because if your kick connected with her jaw, she could be a 500-pound amazon and still die immediately, or be paralyzed for life.

Now, if Kira had elbowed that Klingon in the head area, there'd be no discussion here. You don't need superior strength with hits like that, you only need threshold strength, which most humans would have. A hit in an armored, padded stomach... Now that's where credibility is stretched.

Gunfights, knifefights, fistfights... They are not contests of strength. They only involve threshold strength, after which any extra strength is useless. With a gun, you only need the muscles to pull the trigger. With a knife, a little bit more. With a fist, a great deal more, but it's still just threshold strength. And stamina, unless your first few punches already do the trick. But stamina is something dependent on skill - on letting the other guy get tired. And Kira did a lot of that in the fight.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The thing is they're not genetically indistinguishable from Vulcans. Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed Worf's whatever it was in The Enemy to cure the Romulan. Instead, they could have used a Vulcan crew member.

That doesn't follow. Perhaps all Vulcan and all Klingon blood, plus all Bolian and all Bugomite blood, is in theory compatible - but only if it is of F-negative type. And all the Vulcans aboard were of the S-rhomboid or T-indecisive blood type...

Timo Saloniemi

Well, here's Crusher's quote:

"We thought it would be like working on a Vulcan, but there are subtle differences... too many of them..."

Crusher pointed out that Romulans and Vulcans aren't exactly the same. That was my only point.
 
Because I'd be able to take down a woman that looks like Kira with a finger of my left hand. And I'm above average strength, but not even big.
A big guy would have no problem with a woman at all. It's only in movies that you see a guy trying to beat up a girl and she runs away and fights back. I always laugh when I see those Michael Douglass flicks where he gets beat up by 110 lb women :lol:

I'm quite confident that there are several female martial artist weighting no more than Nana Visitor that could beat you, me and Michael Douglass with little difficulty. Unless you happen to be world class martial artist of course. I'm sure I'm not, nor is Michael Douglass, and apparently that klingon wasn't either.

While I thought a lot of the fight scenes with Kira were pretty silly it was more of the execution of the fights than the fights themselves but that says more about how seriously the fight scenes were taken than the capabilities of a woman taking out a man.
I pretty sure there are plenty of woman Nana's size that could absolutely damage a man her size or bigger. It's not a matter of size but utilization of technique. You just need to fight to your advantage. Sex plays not a role in this.
 
I was watching the episode "Twilight" (not the movie LOL but the enterprise ep) and the people who worked on the show commented on a scene where T'Pol struggled but couldn't lift up some metal. They were thinkijng that Vulcan females are as strong (actually as weak ;) as human females) Interesting.

It seems Andorian woman are stronger than human men (that episode where Talas seemed relaxed while beating up a human military soldier

As someone who hasn't seen a lot of Enterprise I find that disappointing. We really need more scenes of vulcans tossing people left and right. I wanted more of that in Voyager. At least Tuvok still had his super strength though. Poor T'pol regulated to damsel in distress. I would much prefer logical ass kicking machine!
 
As someone who hasn't seen a lot of Enterprise I find that disappointing. We really need more scenes of vulcans tossing people left and right. I wanted more of that in Voyager. At least Tuvok still had his super strength though. Poor T'pol regulated to damsel in distress. I would much prefer logical ass kicking machine!

It was annoying. But at least behind scenes comments are not canon and can be safely ignored. Though T'pol seemed to have forgotten she had superstrength. *sigh*
 
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