Spanking bad for kids?

[jamestyler]

I've seen children where "the rod" was spared-and the little devils KNOW the consequences are insignificant. So they repeat bad behavior because they aren't afraid of what will happen.

This is something that drives me nuts. My girlfriends oldest picked up on the 'Supernanny' method and stopped caring about 'time out' as he knew how long he' be there. Even pointing out a couple of times "I can play in seven minutes."

It gets worse when he comes back from his fathers as discipline does not exist there.

 

[Deckerd]

Why do children have to be afraid at all? You can instill good behaviour in them without violence. All you need to do is know all the things they really like and have a system of sanctions for when they are being little buggers. Worked for me.

To the person who said children aren't small adults - quite right. They aren't able to fight back so it's even more unfair to hit them.

 

[Gepard]

To the person who said children aren't small adults - quite right. They aren't able to fight back so it's even more unfair to hit them.

Someone on this board once said (and I don't remember who) that, by their nature, children live in a dictatorship; the only power they have is to hope that it's a benevolent one.

 

[Kelso]

I was smacked as a kid by my mother. I remember distinctly the day I turned around and smacked her back. She didn't do it again.

That would have been the end of me, right there.

I was 16 and I'd had enough.

16?!?

Okay, yeah, she definitely had it coming.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

If I did something wrong I either got the slipper straight away or if I managed to race upstairs fast enough and lock the bedroom door I'd have my bedroom door kicked in and THEN the slipper. Sounds worse then it actually was.

Did me the world of good though and I'm glad I got the slipper because otherwise I'd be an asshole.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Why do children have to be afraid at all? You can instill good behaviour in them without violence. All you need to do is know all the things they really like and have a system of sanctions for when they are being little buggers. Worked for me.

To the person who said children aren't small adults - quite right. They aren't able to fight back so it's even more unfair to hit them.

That was me who said that.

Not all kids respond to everything the same way. My son doesn't care at all if you swat him on the butt, so that doesn't work for him in the least. My daughter, on the other hand, will do what she's told specifically because she remembers last time she got popped on the ass for smarting off about it.

I'm not talking about bending them over my knee and delivering a series of firm smacks. I never go above light swats--enough to cause a momentary discomfort and get their attention, so they know I mean business. But it's rare that I have to do that at all.

The people doing it 3+ times a week? Yeah, that seems excessive, and I suspect those are the ones who think hitting harder is more effective. It isn't. It doesn't take more than a light swat to get the point across. If it does, I'd say spanking is definitely not a good strategy for that child--find something else.

Obviously, I am not advocating beating your kids to make them comply.

 

[Raven_Shayde]

There is definitely a huge significance between ocassional spanking as a "last resort" discipline method and actually beating your child regularly because you are unable to deal with them etc. I myself am a single parent of 2 boys and I'd like to point out it is damn hard! I do use spanking ocassionally and as a last resort like for a majorly bad incident or if they've been told repeatedly not to do the same thing about a million times thats day. Usually i resort to having them stand in the hall for a set time. Seems to be more effective on my youngest who isn't as bad on the behavioural front. My oldest on the other hand feels the need to stand in the hall and fake cry and or scream for the duration of his time there *sigh*.

For the record, I did start disciplining them early on, what works with one kid doesn't always work for the other. But I do believe someone should have a discipline rant at their father as he clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word . I've tried onnumerous ocassions and failed lol.

 

[Mr Awe]

As for kids being different, sure, but they all have *something* that they want, which can be taken away. Quite effective. You just need to find the something that works the best.

But, there's the other side of the coin. I've seen kids with discipline problems. They live in our neighborhood and we're good friends with the parents. They use spanking too saying it's the only thing they'll respond too.

What we see is that they get to that "last resort" rather quickly. Additionally, they've never tried to figure out what is making their son tick, why he's behaving that way. He really just needs some positive attention. He mainly gets attention when doing something wrong. It's easier (in the short run atleast) for the parents to just want him to stop what he's doing at the moment without figuring out why. It's especially easier when what's needed is a change in *their* behavior too!

Mr Awe

 

[Raven_Shayde]

As for kids being different, sure, but they all have *something* that they want, which can be taken away. Quite effective. You just need to find the something that works the best.

But, there's the other side of the coin. I've seen kids with discipline problems. They live in our neighborhood and we're good friends with the parents. They use spanking too saying it's the only thing they'll respond too.

What we see is that they get to that "last resort" rather quickly. Additionally, they've never tried to figure out what is making their son tick, why he's behaving that way. He really just needs some positive attention. He mainly gets attention when doing something wrong. It's easier (in the short run atleast) for the parents to just want him to stop what he's doing at the moment without figuring out why. It's especially easier when what's needed is a change in *their* behavior too!

Mr Awe

I totally agree with the positive attention thing. My oldest son is actually quite a bit like that, it's like he misbehaves to get the attention, albeit not as bad as he used to be. After many talks etc, he's clicking on that if he does something good he'll get the positive attention. I also agree it's not solely the kid's fault either. I'm pretty confident that he got used to mainly getting more attention from me when he did something wrong. I'm by no means the best parent, I just try my best, you learn as you go along I guess. Ooops I appear to have drifted off topic.

 

[Cakes488]

Why do children have to be afraid at all? You can instill good behaviour in them without violence. All you need to do is know all the things they really like and have a system of sanctions for when they are being little buggers. Worked for me.

To the person who said children aren't small adults - quite right. They aren't able to fight back so it's even more unfair to hit them.

The sanctions have always worked wonders for me. In addition following through on what you say you're going to do (no matter how miserable it makes you) and being consistent are so very very important. The kids like to test and see what they can get away with. And I agree that spanking as a "last resort" is lazy...get a book/talk to somebody and figure out other more productive ways to handle it. There is help out there if you want it and if you do a little research...but I guess it's easier to just smack them on the ass.

It's extra work up front to creatively punish them and to follow through and stick to your guns...but you'll save yourself a lot of shit later on.

 

[Cakes488]

I've seen children where "the rod" was spared-and the little devils KNOW the consequences are insignificant. So they repeat bad behavior because they aren't afraid of what will happen.

This is something that drives me nuts. My girlfriends oldest picked up on the 'Supernanny' method and stopped caring about 'time out' as he knew how long he' be there. Even pointing out a couple of times "I can play in seven minutes."

It gets worse when he comes back from his fathers as discipline does not exist there.

See if that kid said that to me no no he wouldn't be playing in 7 minutes. He'd stay on that step for another 7 minutes and you'll stay on there until I don't hear not one peep outta you for the whole 7 minutes. Not one fucking word kiddo. You wanna be a wiseass...? Fine but you're going to pay for it.

 

[Mistral]

I agree that identifying the child's issues are fundamental to good parenting, and I also agree that more than a light swat to get their attention is abusive. I am not trying to leave the child traumatized-I want him to have fire in his belly. I've seen kids that, if you raised your hand above their head, they'd flinch. That isn't my boy. If I raised my hand above his head he'd leap up, grab my arm and try to rassle me down.

Cakes is right about the follow-through, and the consistency. If the rules are clear the child will know when they've broken them. No arbitrary punishments, no smacks or what have you coming out of left field. Tell them how it is and what's expected, and always keep in mind that you as a parent can never be "too tired" or "too busy" to follow up as needed. I've found that if you explain things and always clarify situations the actual need for physical punishment virtually vanishes. Vitually. Except when he hits the 10 lb dog with the cardboard tube from a roll of wrapping paper.

 

[Raven_Shayde]

I've seen children where "the rod" was spared-and the little devils KNOW the consequences are insignificant. So they repeat bad behavior because they aren't afraid of what will happen.

This is something that drives me nuts. My girlfriends oldest picked up on the 'Supernanny' method and stopped caring about 'time out' as he knew how long he' be there. Even pointing out a couple of times "I can play in seven minutes."

It gets worse when he comes back from his fathers as discipline does not exist there.

See if that kid said that to me no no he wouldn't be playing in 7 minutes. He'd stay on that step for another 7 minutes and you'll stay on there until I don't hear not one peep outta you for the whole 7 minutes. Not one fucking word kiddo. You wanna be a wiseass...? Fine but you're going to pay for it.

Yeah that's my kid you're talking about

 

[Raven_Shayde]

Why do children have to be afraid at all? You can instill good behaviour in them without violence. All you need to do is know all the things they really like and have a system of sanctions for when they are being little buggers. Worked for me.

To the person who said children aren't small adults - quite right. They aren't able to fight back so it's even more unfair to hit them.

The sanctions have always worked wonders for me. In addition following through on what you say you're going to do (no matter how miserable it makes you) and being consistent are so very very important. The kids like to test and see what they can get away with. And I agree that spanking as a "last resort" is lazy...get a book/talk to somebody and figure out other more productive ways to handle it. There is help out there if you want it and if you do a little research...but I guess it's easier to just smack them on the ass.

It's extra work up front to creatively punish them and to follow through and stick to your guns...but you'll save yourself a lot of shit later on.

Very true! But I wouldn't so much say lazy as end of one's tether. And you're right it makes it a lot easier when yo're able to talk to someone. But when it's just you by yourself 90 % of the time with them pushing your buttons it is extremely hard.

 

[Deckerd]

I was a single mum. If she was being a horrible little brat outside and absolutely wouldn't take a telling I would pretend to run away from her. The screams could have shattered glass but it did the trick.

 

[Raven_Shayde]

I was a single mum. If she was being a horrible little brat outside and absolutely wouldn't take a telling I would pretend to run away from her. The screams could have shattered glass but it did the trick.

My youngest is like that. Where as my oldest he's a little more hardcore than that. In saying that though apparently getting him to help out more around the house today seems to be having a positive impact

P.S I heart your avatar

 

[TheLonelySquire]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20090915/hl_hsn/earlyspankingsmakeforaggressivetoddlersstudyshows

What an interesting article. As a father of a 3 yr old, I'm telling you that a spanking-held out as a last resort and with clearly defined parameters that will lead to it, is probably the best behavioral modifier. My boy knows at what point we reach that level of discipline and works hard not to push the limits. I think the difference is abuse vs firm limits. Your take?

I agree with you 100%. It hurts us more then the kid.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I think (and I quite acknowledge that I'm pulling this out of where the sun don't shine, I ain't a parent) that the issue with many 'discipline problem' kids who 'need' to be smacked a lot, yelled at, etc. is that many parents don't grasp or accept that day to day discipline is hard work. Teaching kids 'no means no' early on sounds like a good idea (because it is) but it's a job of some serious work, and will come with a lot of aggravation, some tantrums, some 'i hate you mommy's. But it will pay off later. I think a lot of parents look for a quick fix, something they can do that will immediately turn their kid into an angel in one easy session at no cost to them. Yelling and screaming and hitting achieve more instant results, so they do that. The fact that the results are much more temporary means they have to keep doing that.

I agree again, even though I am also pulling it from The Place Where The Sun Does Not Shine, because I am not yet a parent either .

I am a parent, and I agree with both of you.

You have to start early. You have to. They have to learn early on that "no" means "no," and if you tell them to do something, by God, they'd better do it. There's no need to be an ogre about it, though. My two oldest kids are 4 and 2 and they clean up their room on their own. It's not that hard, either. "We won't go to the park until your room is clean." Or, "You can't swim in the pool until your room is clean." They go in there and tear it up, they're gonna pick it up before they go do something else.

The only time they really get spanked at all is if they do something they absolutely should know they aren't supposed to do, like go outside by themselves without asking, or feeding their food to the dogs. Those things happen rather rarely because we didn't let it get out of control in the first place.

You always start with gentle redirection and work your way up. You don't go straight for the swat.

I've met parents who just plain didn't discipline their kids at all. These are the kids who are holy terrors by age 7, and end up hopped up on various pills because they never learned how to behave and it's easier to just screw with their brain chemicals than actually discipline them.

By contrast, I am very much against medicating--I see it as a last resort when all other therapies have failed. Our daughter had seizures when she was an infant, and we gradually weaned her off of her meds when she was 2, to see if she would do okay. The doctor wanted to keep her on the pills forever. Well, she hasn't had a seizure in two years, so she's probably outgrown it. We'll see.

In short, I think a lot of parents use spanking as a "quick fix," the same way they do everything else. There are no quick fixes. It takes persistence and patience.

Extremely well said. You are most likely a fine parent. Just don't feed the dog's food to the kids lest you get whacked!

 

[jamestyler]

See if that kid said that to me no no he wouldn't be playing in 7 minutes. He'd stay on that step for another 7 minutes and you'll stay on there until I don't hear not one peep outta you for the whole 7 minutes. Not one fucking word kiddo. You wanna be a wiseass...? Fine but you're going to pay for it.

Too fraking right. Though if it continues this way he may end up living in the time out corner.

With my own daughter, from a young age I'd talk directly to her and tell her what she did wrong... which worked wonders until she began the 'divorced parents routine. Now counting to three seems to be a good method these days to calm her down.

I don't exactly know what she expects if I ever get to three, and quite frankly nor do I - I've never had to go past one.

 

[JuanBolio]

I don't have kids (nor do I particularly want any), but I'd probably employ corporal punishment to some degree if I had them. Never for a first offense, though, and only for things particularly bad - I.E. dangerous.