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SpaceX appreciation thread

Beast thread!

This is gonna be my avatar when i reach 2 weeks.
spaceX.jpg
 
I'm a little scared. With Ares I fading, I think Musk will find himself in ULAs gunsights. This group called the Aerospace Company has already cast doubt on private space start ups. Guess what they had a hand in? EELVs. Be prepared to hear more "range safety issues" in another attempt to force him off the coast again and waste money on island logistics.

A lot of people thought I was an ATK hack, because I was a fan of Griffin. Not so--I just know what blue-suiters and Boeing have done in the past--what with the tanker scandal and all. ATK lost, so its time for me to support Musk. He just needs to watch his back.
 
Well, considering what happened with Falcon 1's first launch. I would have to say in that case that their fears were justified. They did have a very expensive rocket and payload in the area at the time. Range safety issues are a concern if you have something that could get damaged. If nothing else (besides normal infrastructure) is there, well, they won't have much say in it will they?
 
Very true, but folks can get creative, and say that Falcon heavy is a new untested rocket--and so on. I expect that.

Thing is, when Falcon 1 launched, the EELVs were pretty new as well, especially the Deltas. Atlas III in some ways was the ultimate rocket. Thin, lightweight balloon tank construction atop mighty Soviet RD-180 engines--half F-1 strength, and the biggest kerolox engines save for Zenit/Energiya strap-ons that they spawned from. So Atlas was a bit more of a known quantity, and lost its balloon tank for its EELV.

Delta could just as easily have wandered off course and hit Musks rocket as vice versa. I think this was a case of playing favorites under the cover of range safety.
 
^Yea, they favored the safety of the super expensive military payload on the Delta over the one made by a bunch of students from the airforce academy on the Falcon 1. No brainer there.
 
http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20110419

WASHINGTON – NASA has awarded Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) $75 million to develop a revolutionary launch escape system that will enable the company’s Dragon spacecraft to carry astronauts. The Congressionally mandated award is part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Development (CCDev) initiative that started in 2009 to help private companies mature concepts and technologies for human spaceflight.......


SpaceX’s integrated escape system will be superior to traditional solid rocket tractor escape towers used by other vehicles in the past. Due to their extreme weight, tractor systems must be jettisoned within minutes of liftoff, but the SpaceX innovative design builds the escape engines into the side walls of Dragon, eliminating the danger of releasing a heavy solid rocket escape tower after launch.

http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=58&cat=recent

http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=59&cat=recent
 
The thing is, Falcon-H is itself an EELV class rocket. It earns this classification because it will be based on the existing Falcon-9 core, which will have ALOT of flying experience by the time the Heavy rolls out. That's pretty much the only advantage EELVs have over traditional HLVs: It's not a new launch system so much as it is the massive uprating of an older one, and the reduced overhead is supposed to cut development costs (which it does, but only if you're actually USING them).

I'm almost 100% sure that Musk specifically timed the announcement of the Falcon Heavy to cash in on the growing resentment in the aerospace community towards the congressional mandate for the Senate Launch System. It's as if NASA has been asked to eat coal and crap diamonds, and here's Elon Musk offering to buy that lump of coal and sell them a diamond at a discount.
 
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p6EruPdoXY[/yt]

Epic video.

A dragon lands on mars at 1:05.

Note the base at 1:17.

"Crew capability was the very reason why this company was founded, we will do whatever we need to do to make it happen. - Elon Musk

I bet Musk plans to go to mars himself.
 
I'm reminded of the old rumor that Ferrari sold cars to finance the racing teams..

And Musk is flying cargo to finance his private manned space efforts...
 
it's very interesting, I'm still a grad student in AE but my buddy went and started working for a subcontractor on shuttle operations in Houston after we graduated undergrad and he has a very very, VERY low opinion of Musk and SpaceX.

I guess it's motivated primarily by the fact that Musk is known for being uninterested in hiring a lot of the experienced AE personnel hemorrhaging from NASA from all the program budget cuts, and prefers new graduates. He also claims they pay shit but I haven't heard any confirmation of that, that could just be slander.

Also thinks that since he's private, he is fudging or misrepresenting a lot of his operating costs. I guess one thing NASA is really not taking too kindly is his dollar figure claims of what he can do certain mission objectives with since it's making them look like the less cost effective option. I wouldn't blame him if he was absorbing costs personally in order to develop the technology to the point where it's economical enough to be competitive on a broader scale than it is today.
 
I guess one thing NASA is really not taking too kindly is his dollar figure claims of what he can do certain mission objectives with since it's making them look like the less cost effective option.
NASA is the less cost effective option. It's pretty much always been that way, it's just that nobody noticed because the only other option was the Russians.
 
I guess one thing NASA is really not taking too kindly is his dollar figure claims of what he can do certain mission objectives with since it's making them look like the less cost effective option.
NASA is the less cost effective option. It's pretty much always been that way, it's just that nobody noticed because the only other option was the Russians.

I think I know what you're trying to say - which is that private industry has the potential to be more cost effective - but what you really said was that an alternative that doesn't yet exist (to NASA) is more cost effective. A private space industry doesn't exist yet, not one that actually flies cargo and personnel, therefore it isn't a more cost effective option to NASA.

You still missed my point though, which is that since SpaceX is privately held, he doesn't have to show anybody shit, from bills to income records to research costs, so he could be dipping into his personal wealth to supplement operational costs; or receiving undisclosed private funding from other sources. He could budget the Falcon Heavy development at $2.3 bn when it's really going to be $2.9b, front or otherwise procure the extra $600m on the basis that when the technology is developed and matured, the returns from the sale of the Falcon Heavy will return and profit on the original investment.

It's not exactly an accusation of anything underhanded, it's simply a reality that the guy's books aren't public, so he could be doing anything. I wouldn't blame him, I'm not saying it'd be illegal or shady, but since it's the number he hands Congress or whoever, it's understandable (if such a scenario were the case), why it would piss off a contending contractor (NASA), who can't provide a lowballed number and then pad the coffers later on.

Also keep in mind that the proof is in the pudding - we haven't actually seen SpaceX deliver on any of its magnanimously ambitious promises yet. I'm not saying they're not going to, or can't; I'm just saying be aware of the reality. The reality is that the Falcon Heavy doesn't exist yet. Falcon 9 has flown but only a maiden flight and one successful test flight, it hasn't carried cargo yet; much less people. And even though Dragon and Falcon Heavy are "human rated", 2 successful launches and a certification next to hundreds of thousands of hours of flight and millions of man hours of flight testing (vs the shuttle) is a hell of a difference in terms of launch vehicle maturity. This platform is promising but, you have to remember what a conservative industry this is. I mean space exploration gets less money than education for cryin out loud, they're like the Marine Corps when it comes to frugality, they're careful and painstaking and annoyingly over cautious. You have no idea, everything's triple-redundant and factors of safety are 3-4x flight ratings. It's absurd and insane, and it means development of a new vehicle is going to be slow, and grueling, and we're not gonna toss astronauts into orbit in 2013 after 3 or 4 launches of the Falcon/Dragon. Not in a million years would NASA sign off on that.
 
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Then again, NASA tossed astronauts into the first shuttle launch. Even the russians weren't that ballsy with Buran.
 
Then again, NASA tossed astronauts into the first shuttle launch. Even the russians weren't that ballsy with Buran.

But Columbia was equipped with two ejection seats for the early flights. If there had been much warning early in the flight about a catastrophic failure of the main engines or boosters (both of which had been subject to tests on the ground) the pilot and copilot could have ejected. Chalenger and the subsequent orbiters weren't equipped with ejection seats and by the time Colombia was flying with more than two crew members regular eats had been substituted for the two ejection seats.
 
That's my point. Dragon will have LAS built in. It will arguably be safer than the shuttle for manned launches.
 
That's my point. Dragon will have LAS built in. It will arguably be safer than the shuttle for manned launches.

In principle I would agree simply based on the fact that we've accrued so much more knowledge in the last 40 years about the dangers and pitfalls in manned launch vehicle design. I just meant that I don't think we should expect to see real flights with real astronauts on SpaceX hardware until they've been extensively tested and reached NASA's standard of safety, which is extreme, and is probably not going to result in manned flights aboard SpaceX hardware within the next... 3 years. Let's assume the Falcon Heavy has a magnanimously successful maiden voyage later this year (it's later this year isn't it?). That would be excellent, but the pace would have to be picked up considerable for it to be considered likely that astronauts will ride on one to orbit by the end of 2013.
 
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