Space Seed and TWOK Question

[Timo]

Aww, the puppy eyes... Can't take the puppy eyes!

Okay, perhaps that was a bit harsh on poor Chekov and Terrell. But if they go down to the settlement specifically to see whether the fearsome Khan Singh survives, it really is their own damn fault if hilarious hijinks ensue. Nicer to have them be surprised by something unexpected, IMHO. (Although if you're not going to expect unexpected flames shooting out of the floor unexpectedly, what's the point of going anywhere?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

I agree. Given the mischief Khan caused in "Space Seed", if anyone went down to Ceti Alpha V knowing Khan might be down there, it would be foolish of them not to take significant precautions.

Now, if it could be made credible to the audience that Our Heroes had taken significant precautions and Khan managed to get the best of them in any case, that might work, though there is a level of "Why on Earth would you go looking for the guy in any case?"

 

[Ithekro]

Best guess is that the Federation thought Ceti Alpha V exploded and figured the Khan problem was over with. But in all likelihood, Kirk didn't report what happened to Khan and his people. Only Chekov and Kyle might have known at all out of Reliant's crew, and if they thought they were over Ceti Alpha VI, well than they wouldn't assume Khan is there, plus the Federation never sent anyone there since Khan for some reason.

 

[DonIago]

...this sounds familiar somehow...

 

[Timo]

The thing is, Trek is consistent in the UFP lacking the ability to tell what happens on or to planets in other star systems in real time. In "Doomsday Machine" they can't tell entire systemfuls of planets are turning to rubble. In the 2009 film, they can't tell what's going on at Vulcan. If the distance to Ceti Alpha is more like that to the L-whatevers than that to Vulcan, then CA V disappearing should not have been noticed until a starship visits the place.

The UFP just plain doesn't know much about X unless a starship pays a visit to X specifically. And when one does, she goes in with blinders on, being in a hurry to get the job done and then get the next job done, because the UFP does need to know, and after X comes Y, Z and a zillion others. So no matter what sort of a rush job the Reliant crew commits to get the adventure started, there's general and probably also specific precedent to it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

I like Space Seed, but I agree that in it's day, it was just one of the standard episodes, there was nothing too standout-ish about it. By all rights, Harry Mudd was a more influential presence in Kirk's life story, than Khan. What I think works about reusing Khan for a cinematic story (Apart from the awesomeness of Mantalban) is that Khan is one of the very few true nemeses of Kirk who is a Human. Plus that his tale is left open-ended. The whole film is about Kirk being humbled, in numerous ways, & rising up to his own betterment by the end. Feels old, gave up captaining, got a grown son unknown to him, etc... & then of course an age old antagonist that's still out there gunning for him. I don't think you can truly go to those depths with some alien of the week kind of villain. An actual extinct human, who just won't go away, is the perfect foil for Kirk's figurative life journey of beginning to feel like a dinosaur in his own time. That story is just perfect for Khan

 

[suarezguy]

I thought "Space Seed" was a big highlight of the series on its own, especially Khan's charisma and Kirk's reluctant admiration of elements of him, but it's probably better to watch TWoK some time later rather than soon after to reflect the in-universe passage of time.

 

[Timo]

One of the things going for Khan is that the writer clearly had a specific outcome in mind (make castaways of the villains), and this dictated that the villain not be too bad - otherwise Kirk would look bad showing mercy. So Khan was destined to be another Harry Mudd, a sympathetic villain and therefore necessarily much more complex than the standard fare. He'd be the serious sort, OTOH, thus more useful on the big screen. And unlike Kor, who was written open-ended for possible recurrence, and then rewritten as Koloth and Kang, Khan didn't get overused in TOS yet.

Plus, you know, Montalban.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Spot261]

^Considering the entire premise of the movie hinges upon Khan being encountered again, what would you suggest as an alternate option?

If anyone was going down to the planet and knew Khan et. al were there, they'd have probably stunned everyone from orbit first or such, just to be safe.

It might have been easier on the whole suspension of disbelief if someone else had found them on Ceti Alpha, a crew without Chekov, or even better a non SF group altogether.

 

[Timo]

Goes against the rules of dramatic writing - rules that generally tend to limit dramatic potential and plausibility both.

The more serious issue is that we'd have missed out on the Chekov Scream then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. None of Our Heroes being on that crew, increases the credibility of the situation but, as Timo noted, decreases the audience interest.

Though I will say I thought the actor playing Terrell (Paul Winfield I believe?) did a great job of making me interested in an ultimately somewhat minor character.

 

[Spot261]

Having them ot find him doesn't preclude their later involvement or starring role though, we'd simply have got someone else's scream