Space Seed and TWOK Question

[M.A.C.O.]

Question: How many of you watch Space Seed in conjunction with TWOK and how often? Space Seed is an episode I feel that is elevated because of it's connection to TWOK, but SS itself isn't that great on it's own. Kirk toppled a number of would be conquerors and ego maniacs during his TOS days. Khan was just one of a number before his resurgence with the movies.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I found "Space Seed" interesting enough, and TWoK really wouldn't have a leg to stand on if this famous TOS villain didn't offer a pair. But watching the two side by side or bumper to bumper... Never done that. I suppose it would be a bit painful, visuals-wise.

The thing common to both stories is that the main heroes are shown to be unusually fallible. In TOS, they worship the villain, to the point of one in their midst switching allegiances altogether. In the movie, they are old men all, stuck in their ways, fumbling in their profession, grasping at excuses to wake up in the morning. The playing field is seldom that level between the hero and the villain in Trek. Which is way cool.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Ostensibly TWOK is a sequel to Space Seed but really there is no need to have seen the TOS episode to enjoy and understand TWOK. I think a rather telling little observation re. the importance of Space Seed is the fact that it's never included as an extra on the DVD's/Blu-Ray's of TWOK.

 

[Smellmet]

I've done it before. I would recommend it in fact. Yes you can watch TWOK without having seen Space Seed but I feel it really fleshes out the backstory for the uninitiated.

 

[Galileo7]

I've done it before. I would recommend it in fact. Yes you can watch TWOK without having seen Space Seed but I feel it really fleshes out the backstory for the uninitiated.

If someone has never seen "Space Seed" and they watch WOK that is okay. Although, I do absolutely agree that it adds a backstory to this film that enhances the viewing since all the original actors are still involved. At this point, I watch WOK without "Space Seed" only because I have seen that episode many times. Just as I watch "Space Seed" without watching WOK. If I were to show WOK to a person that has not seen it, then I would show them "Space Seed" first.

 

[Santa Kang]

Never done it.

 

[Tenacity]

Or watch SS, then TWOK, then ST Darkness.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think "Space Seed" is a classic. It's a decent episode, but if it weren't for Wrath of Khan I doubt it'd be remembered as fondly as it is. I didn't see it until after I'd seen Wrath of Khan.

I watched them back-to-back once, it really showed the continuity gaps between them. Definitely made to hang together in broad strokes only.

 

[Tenacity]

I like Space Seed because I like episodes that engage in "universe building," and Space Seed is where we get the Eugenics wars with dates and some details of history.

 

[2takesfrakes]

In The Wrath of Khan, the coincidence of finding Khan on the very planet they abandoned him on and getting sucked into his wrath, is frigging retarded. Even on the movie's own terms, it's just incredibly stupid. Unfortunately, by the time the script reveals this actuality, it's too late. We've met Khan and the ball's already rolling, by this point. I find the movie and the TV episode to be equally daft, but the desire to entertain is such that they're both strangely satisfying.

 

[DonIago]

^Considering the entire premise of the movie hinges upon Khan being encountered again, what would you suggest as an alternate option?

If anyone was going down to the planet and knew Khan et. al were there, they'd have probably stunned everyone from orbit first or such, just to be safe.

 

[Tenacity]

the coincidence of finding Khan on the very planet they abandoned him on and getting sucked into his wrath, is frigging retarded

"Retarded" how?

 

[2takesfrakes]

"Retarded" how?

With its laziness and stupidity, amongst other things.

^Considering the entire premise of the movie hinges upon Khan being encountered again, what would you suggest as an alternate option?

If anyone was going down to the planet and knew Khan et. al were there, they'd have probably stunned everyone from orbit first or such, just to be safe.

Keeping costs down was key, which is why so TMP footage is in TWoK. Any proposed 'alternative' would have to be with that in mind and would still have to allow for the rest of the movie, exactly as it was. It's a hell of a challenge! The easiest thing to do would be to simply have Ceti Alpha V "check out" - even the eels are extinct, living only in Khan's ant farm. Terrell and Chekov beam down to check Khan's camp, just to make extra certain that he and his followers didn't make it, after Ceti Alpha VI blew up. At which point, "Surprise!" and TWoK proceeds as we know it.

 

[Timo]

So the heroes are surprised by something/someone that shouldn't be a surprise to them? Sounds dafter than anything I've heard so far - it's a whole another level of incompetence over the bit that led them into confusing two planets.

In any case, ST2:TWoK is all about fallibility. Kirk gets over his, Khan doesn't, which is the whole point. If our heroes were perfect from the get-go, there would be no story, just a non-interactive game where two goons slug it out with starships. There absolutely has to be a string of mistakes at the start, and an interesting string trumps an uninteresting if potentially more plausible "We came to make sure Khan doesn't take over the... Oops, he took over the ship!" fumble.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Space Seed is definitely a good episode, but in my book it's just good, not one of the greats. I think you're right that its status is elevated way beyond its own merits because of the triumph that is TWOK. I like Space Seed, but I don't even think it breaks my top ten.

 

[Kor]

I agree that the episode was OK but not spectacular, and that the movie has some holes in its logic. Perhaps the planet should have been discovered by privateers unfamiliar with Starfleet's previous operations in the area?

Kor

 

[FormerLurker]

How does that scenario get Khan the Genesis torpedo and controls for it?

 

[Kor]

How does that scenario get Khan the Genesis torpedo and controls for it?

It's in the next system over from where Reliant is doing it's thing, Khan steals the privateer ship and ends up over there. Maybe.

Kor

 

[Galileo7]

It's in the next system over from where Reliant is doing it's thing, Khan steals the privateer ship and ends up over there. Maybe.

Kor

I always wanted Khan & followers to have taken over a K'T'inga [not a Bird of Prey] that already had Klingon spies ventured into Federation space to captured information on project Genesis and Admiral Kirk. That is the catalyst for Khan to seek out both. I wanted the battles between the Kirk's 1701-Refit & Khan's K'T'inga . TUC minor interaction was not enough for me. I can imagine instead of the Reliant vs. 1701-Refit a K'T'inga in those scenes.

 

[2takesfrakes]

So the heroes are surprised by something/someone that shouldn't be a surprise to them? Sounds dafter than anything I've heard so far - it's a whole another level of incompetence over the bit that led them into confusing two planets.