Source for the STV "Cat Woman" being called a "Kzinrret/Kzinrretti"?

[Therin of Andor]

... are you confident of that the spelling "Kzinretti" was used in the source? (I just want to be sure that if it is a misspelling it is original to the source. When poking around the internet, I was thinking that maybe it had just been mis-transcribed, since Niven's spelling for a female Kzin is Kzinrret and its plural is Kzinrretti. But if you are sure this specific spelling was used in the source, that might also help. On the other hand, if you're not sure one way or another, that might help too.) Again, thanks much!

Also, does anyone else reading this have any TFF-related Starlog issues or a copy of this "Handbook of Production Information" to aid in the investigation?

Every Trek movie came with a "Handbook of Production Information" , sent out to (some) Star Trek clubs and the media as part of a press kit (with a few slides, photos, etc), or as just the booklet.

My spelling is definitely correct for the resource I read. (Until then, I'd only remembered Niven - and TAS? - calling non sentient kzinti females as "kzinti females".) The more I try to recall it, I actually think it may have been an online interview with stunt actress Linda Fetters on a specialist theatrical makeup website, but it doesn't seem to be around any more. (I remember googling her name to find good images of her in costume.) Keep in mind that the spelling would be the transcriber's estimation after the oral interview with Ms Fetters. The transcriber would have no idea that Niven was so pedantic on spellings.

I usually have a good memory for my sources, but I'm afraid I just remember reading and pouncing on the snippet around the time I first compiled the Toon Trek list. My Starlogs are in all storage, as are my Starlog movie tie-in mags.

 

[Timo]

This in any case is a situation where the objective evidence goes against the lady in question being a Kzinrret by any spelling. Caitian, perhaps; an unknown species, perhaps; but any family resemblance to the Kzinti (Niven or TAS) is pronouncedly lacking.

Rhaandarites are a more ambiguous issue. But so what if one of them happened to be a vegan? It's not as if there were any Kzinti aboard to call him worse.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

My spelling is definitely correct for the resource I read. (Until then, I'd only remembered Niven - and TAS? - calling non sentient kzinti females as "kzinti females".) The more I try to recall it, I actually think it may have been an online interview with stunt actress Linda Fetters on a specialist theatrical makeup website, but it doesn't seem to be around any more. (I remember googling her name to find good images of her in costume.) Keep in mind that the spelling would be the transcriber's estimation after the oral interview with Ms Fetters. The transcriber would have no idea that Niven was so pedantic on spellings.

Ah ok, I just wanted to clarify because in my Google searches I found a later version of your blog that said "Kzinrrett" instead of "Kzinretti" and a post from you here that corrected another poster to that spelling. So, to be clear, you think that the source misspelled it originally and you initially transcribed it as given, but later "corrected" it based on Niven's spelling? (Not trying to nitpick you here, merely to be as accurate as possible in hopes of furthering the search for the source rather than impeding it.)

You wouldn't by any chance happen to recall anything of the name of this makeup forum? I could try checking the Wayback Machine on the off chance it has an archived version. (Incidentally, they also have a lot of Starlog issues, but a text search yields no results for any variation of "kzin(r)re(t)t(i)" that I can find. However, I'm not sure their collection is complete, because they don't seem to have the STV "Official Movie Magazine" edition, for instance.)

I would try contacting Linda Fetters (now Howard) directly, but I know she just lost her husband (actor Ken Howard) recently, so I don't want to bother her with this trivial inquiry for the time being. Perhaps in the future.
Thanks once again!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well, you're asking me to remember back to 2004. I started my Toon Trek listing of TAS references in other sources on the old Sci-Fi BBS, IIRC, and had there was lots of input from many people suggesting additions and corrections.

The first Geocities web version is the final 2007 form of the pages now preserved at Oocities, and lists the term under both Caitians and Kzin as "Kzinretti" (at http://www.oocities.org/area51/station/1558/TAS/TAS.html ). My blog page update of the info (http://andorfiles.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/toon-trek.html ), necessary after the closure of Geocities, lists the term in both places as "Kzinrrett", so that would be after I did some new fact checking, and was probably from the actual online version of the interview. Probably the first Geocities spelling was from someone remembering and telling me, on SciFi, that the term existed - and then I actually searched and found the correction myself. To have replaced the spelling in both places accidentally would be unlikely.

I don't recall the name of the makeup site, but I seem to recall there was an interview with Linda about the Cat Dancer and another with Suzie Plakson about Selar and K'Ehleyr.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Well, you're asking me to remember back to 2004.

I completely understand, and yet so far every time I have prodded you further, you have yielded more information that has been of additional help.

The first Geocities web version is the final 2007 form of the pages now preserved at Oocities, and lists the term under both Caitians and Kzin as "Kzinretti" (at http://www.oocities.org/area51/station/1558/TAS/TAS.html ). My blog page update of the info (http://andorfiles.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/toon-trek.html ), necessary after the closure of Geocities, lists the term in both places as "Kzinrrett", so that would be after I did some new fact checking, and was probably from the actual online version of the interview. Probably the first Geocities spelling was from someone remembering and telling me, on SciFi, that the term existed - and then I actually searched and found the correction myself. To have replaced the spelling in both places accidentally would be unlikely.

So, it would have been your practice to make such a change only after checking the original source, rather than based on learning of the "correct" spelling in Niven's works and assuming it was what was "really" intended by that source? Or to put it another way: in your opinion and to the best of your recollection, the indications are that "kzinretti" was always simply an error (introduced via a secondary source) with respect to the text of the primary source (the interview itself, as printed)?

My thanks to you yet again, sir!

 

[Therin of Andor]

the indications are that "kzinretti" was always simply an error (introduced via a secondary source) with respect to the text of the primary source (the interview itself, as printed)?
My thanks to you yet again, sir!

I think the term was told to me by someone at SciFi who'd already read the article, then I went searching for the actual article.

As I said earlier, I only recalled Niven calling them "kzinti females" (and I've read several "Ringworld" books and "The Soft Weapon") and I was amazed to see that he had a favoured term and spelling, though not surprised. When i gave Larrry Niven a copy of my Trek aliens art zine (for which I extrapolated Latin terms from those used for other aliens - Andorians, Tellarites, Gorn - in the "Medical Reference Manual"), he flipped to the page upon which I had my art of a male kzin featured and simply grunted, "Wrong genus".


Larry Niven at Galaxy Boookshop, 1885 by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Aliens from Enemies of the Federation zine by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Hmm, so...

Linda Howard (née Fetters) seemed to be getting back into the swing of things on Twitter, so I went ahead and tweeted her about this. Her reply was: "That's something I never heard. I was only referred to as Cat Lady."

@Therin of Andor, do you suppose this means that your memory of it being from an interview with Mrs. Howard herself must be incorrect—and totally understandably so, given the time that has elapsed; you clearly can't be faulted for that, and have from the beginning qualified your responses here to that effect—and it must have come from some other source, such as (just for instance) one with a makeup artist who worked on the film, or some other such individual? (I suppose it's also possible that Mrs. Howard herself has forgotten, too, but I wouldn't want to speculate that in the absence of concrete evidence.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

It was an interview that included a discussion of how the makeup was applied to Linda (and that she wore it at home to test its resilience). Maybe the term was used by the makeup artist? (I think they were both interviewed, but I really don't remember.) I dunno. It was 2004 when I created that listing and started adding and editing. I know I saw the term somewhere. Someone told me about the term, I then looked for it myself online, and found the reference.

The "concrete evidence" is gone. Unless you tried "Wayback Machine"?

Gee, I'm glad I'm not a witness in a murder trial.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I know I saw the term somewhere. Someone told me about the term, I then looked for it myself online, and found the reference.

Worry not, I believe you here. Now moreso than ever, in fact, because this much has remained constant and consistent in your account despite one potential set of details or another not panning out, as is to be expected when someone is telling the truth and simply unable to remember everything perfectly (you're only human!) as opposed to just making things up as they go along.

Gee, I'm glad I'm not a witness in a murder trial.

Heh. It's funny you should put it just so, because I was thinking to myself that this must go on a lot in the legal profession. Journalism too. Sorry if I've made you feel put on the spot. Maybe I ought to have conducted this little cross-examination/interview with you by PM, but I guess I've been holding out hope that you can't be the only one who has any recollection of this, and that sooner or later someone else will come forward to provide another piece of the puzzle which can be combined with yours to yield a more complete picture.

The "concrete evidence" is gone. Unless you tried "Wayback Machine"?

Sadly, a full search engine for the Wayback Machine is still in development. But don't be a defeatist!

-MMoM

 

[RAMA]

Are you updating the Andor Files for Discovery?

RAMA

Well, you're asking me to remember back to 2004. I started my Toon Trek listing of TAS references in other sources on the old Sci-Fi BBS, IIRC, and had there was lots of input from many people suggesting additions and corrections.

The first Geocities web version is the final 2007 form of the pages now preserved at Oocities, and lists the term under both Caitians and Kzin as "Kzinretti" (at http://www.oocities.org/area51/station/1558/TAS/TAS.html ). My blog page update of the info (http://andorfiles.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/toon-trek.html ), necessary after the closure of Geocities, lists the term in both places as "Kzinrrett", so that would be after I did some new fact checking, and was probably from the actual online version of the interview. Probably the first Geocities spelling was from someone remembering and telling me, on SciFi, that the term existed - and then I actually searched and found the correction myself. To have replaced the spelling in both places accidentally would be unlikely.

I don't recall the name of the makeup site, but I seem to recall there was an interview with Linda about the Cat Dancer and another with Suzie Plakson about Selar and K'Ehleyr.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Are you updating the Andor Files for Discovery?

I've fallen so far behind! I have so many novels with little bookmarks of every Andorian and TAS reference.