SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

[137th Gebirg]

The revelation of this law seems to be a bit of a bullshit retcon, IMHO. Up until now, for the past 3 seasons and some change, there has never been any indication that there was an official rule for this. And again, Happy does not appear to be too "Lilly White", and they had several non-white Hispanics in the SOA club down along the border from a couple episodes ago. This really feels like a badly patched plot-canyon to give Sheriff Angry-Black-Man a convenient axe to grind with the Sons. I'll still watch it all to the end, but if that's all this is, I've definitely lost some respect for the writing staff on this one.

 

[timothy]

well things are really going to heat up next week. clay put hit out on jax's girl friend. I wonder how jema will handel this when she finds out. the way things are going I don't think juice will survive to the end of the season.

 

[PsychoPere]

Based on Kurt Sutter's tweets today, it doesn't sound like the Juice & racism storyline is going to be making any more sense as the season progresses...

critics and fans are struggling with the juice racism story. they crave more exposition. they're not gonna get it. i don't point story.

lack of set up exposition is why this show continues to surprise people and head in directions unimagined. everything in juice's arc has been supported by three seasons of story. you've never seen a black member. the[y've] never discussed under current of racism.

i would argue that the response is exactly what i intended -- what the fuck? this makes no sense? really? there are other minorities...

that's the point. it's archaic, but exists. if i set it up with another story, you would have seen this arc coming and i'd get shit for that[.]

the truth is people and by people i mean the cunts who keep fucking blogging about it, HATE the fact the club segregates.

it makes people UNCOMFORTABLE the guys they love to hate are racists. they can be gunrunning misogynist murderers, but they can't be racist.

I normally agree with, or at the very least am amused by, Sutter's "angry" thoughts on Twitter, but I really don't feel like this racism storyline is supported at all by "three seasons of story." I can't recall any indications of SAMCRO members seeming racist at all in the past seasons, so this storyline feels like it's literally come out of nowhere.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Based on Kurt Sutter's tweets today, it doesn't sound like the Juice & racism storyline is going to be making any more sense as the season progresses...

critics and fans are struggling with the juice racism story. they crave more exposition. they're not gonna get it. i don't point story.

lack of set up exposition is why this show continues to surprise people and head in directions unimagined. everything in juice's arc has been supported by three seasons of story. you've never seen a black member. the[y've] never discussed under current of racism.

i would argue that the response is exactly what i intended -- what the fuck? this makes no sense? really? there are other minorities...

that's the point. it's archaic, but exists. if i set it up with another story, you would have seen this arc coming and i'd get shit for that[.]

the truth is people and by people i mean the cunts who keep fucking blogging about it, HATE the fact the club segregates.

it makes people UNCOMFORTABLE the guys they love to hate are racists. they can be gunrunning misogynist murderers, but they can't be racist.

I normally agree with, or at the very least am amused by, Sutter's "angry" thoughts on Twitter, but I really don't feel like this racism storyline is supported at all by "three seasons of story." I can't recall any indications of SAMCRO members seeming racist at all in the past seasons, so this storyline feels like it's literally come out of nowhere.

They don't need to be overtly racist like the Nords to want to keep blacks out of the club. Also, it is yet to be shown how strongly this angle will play out. Right now, we have only Juice's fear of bad reaction which is only going to be compounded with the fallout from the traveling brick which Chibs has suspicions about in regards to juice.

The last time race played any great factor as far as I recall was in Donna's death and Jax and Piney were talking to the Niners. Piney didn't come across all that racially sensitive, one might put it down to Donna's death or just him, but as First Nine, it could also show some underlying mentality in those early years.

I want to see how this plays out, but I don't see this yet as the club is suddenly racist. So far, it is Roosevelt playing on Juice's fears. We know that there is a club rule about race, but rules can be voted on and changed. Not likely now, with everything going on, but it is playing out interestingly to me.

 

[PsychoPere]

FX has ordered a fifth season.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Cool beans, thanks for the news.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Good news indeed!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I normally agree with, or at the very least am amused by, Sutter's "angry" thoughts on Twitter, but I really don't feel like this racism storyline is supported at all by "three seasons of story." I can't recall any indications of SAMCRO members seeming racist at all in the past seasons, so this storyline feels like it's literally come out of nowhere.

I think Sutter is underestimating the importance of depicting the Sons as basically decent people who can be bad but who don't ever cross the line into becoming truly contemptible.

And I wouldn't say they're terribly misogynist. They respect the hell out of Gemma, and seems like Tara is now counted in that "kick-ass old lady" category. Opie cheating on his wife was caused by their lack of communication, and that goes both ways. He was angry at Lila, not just cheating on her because he lacked respect for her. Chibs was loving and protective of his ex-wife and daughter; Tig gave his daughter money, even when her conniving lies were exposed. Otto was torn up over Luann's murder and the club got revenge on her killer. If they were misogynist, they wouldn't respect Gemma, or any of the rest of it.

They don't respect the kind of woman who doesn't deserve respect, but they take that attitude towards men as well. SAMCRO has been carefully depicted as bad-ass and occasionally ruthless but strangely moral by their own lights. They're a true community, they look out for each other and they have a sense of honor.

The Juice plotline could be finessed if the issue is not him being nonwhite - they know he's Puerto Rican, right? - but if he's a member of a racial or ethnic group that might lead to divided loyalties. There are no Puerto Rican MC's in California, but there are black MC's.

If that's the issue, then deft writing could communicate it to the audience, as well as the tragic twist that Juice isn't quite smart enough to realize that all SAMCRO would care about is that he'd never join a black MC. He's a slightly simple-minded guy - that's been well established - and it's plausible that he'd make this sort of mistake, when all he had to do was confront the MC about their supposed racism and have everything settled by one conversation.

 

[Joe Washington]

Juice is going through the wringer after killing Miles. I hope he isn't dead and that the tree broke before he could die from hanging. I'm happy to see that Roosevelt is torn up about what he is doing to Juice and seeing how much of a bastard his so-called ally is.

It's about time that Bobby called for a vote to remove Clay as President. I was surprised that it happened now but now that it has happened, I can't wait to see what happens next.

I really feel bad for Opie. To think that he and Lyla went from being happily married in the beginning of the season to them being torn apart by miscommunication and cheating a week or so after getting married to Lyla packing her bags and leaving Opie. I hope that the two of them reunite and makeup.

Tara, I fear, is at the end of her rope about the crap the club has involved itself in and its impact on her life. Based on the preview, she seems to be thinking about leaving Charming with her kids. I understand why she would do that but I hope something changes her mind. I also really hope that she shares the letters with Jax so he could know how much of a monster Clay is before his direction for the club with the Cartel makes things worse than before.

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

Given where the story was going I'm glad that the Juice character is dead. Subplots about snitches really bore me. Still, I wish Sutter hadn't killed him off. It would have been a lot more interesting for Juice to tell Clay what was going on w/ the cops, and about his dad, and then build a story from there. Seeing the club confront their racist rule would have been much more interesting than seeing the "brown guy" turn into a halfway-snitch.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Juice ain't dead. The sound of the branch breaking was intentional and overt. We'll be seeing him again. I'm sure of it.

 

[timothy]

I think he's dead which is sad. and I wonder how sherrif eli will handle it.
fantastic episode this week great soundtract as well.

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

Juice ain't dead. The sound of the branch breaking was intentional and overt. We'll be seeing him again. I'm sure of it.

That seems to be the general consensus around teh interwebs. I hope that its wrong, but it probably isn't.

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

fantastic episode this week great soundtract as well.

When I heard Katey Sagal singing Billie Holiday's song "Strange Fruit" I knew Juice was going to hang himself.

 

[timothy]

Does she have any albums out?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Yes, she has two that you can find on Amazon if you'd like to check them out. The titles are 'Well' and 'Room'

 

[timothy]

very cool thanks.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The way Juice's suicide was staged, with the lovely rendition of Strange Fruit and all (with the coincidental and ironic line "here is fruit for the crows to pluck,") seems to be telling us that he's dead for real. They wouldn't go thru all that hooplah for a fake-out.

However, I hope he survived. I'd feel cheated if the MC is not called to account for their racist attitudes that drove Juice to suicide, and unless he left a note - which seems out of character - they'll never know why he did it and probably just chalk it up to guilt that ultimately should be blamed on the club's drug-running (which could intensify the conflict between Bobby and Clay already underway.)

I was hoping that the Juice plot would continue until Chibs could figure out what was really going on. He's got a few of the clues already and he seems like a very clever guy who just stays in the background.

If Juice is really dead, Roosevelt is going to turn on the FBI guy.

 

[PsychoPere]

^ Potter isn't FBI. He's an Assistant US Attorney.

 

[Joe Washington]

I have a scary thought that Clay may have Jax kill Piney, giving Jax some lie about why Piney needs to die like saying that he had a role in the threats aganist Tara's life instead of the real reason which is Piney blackmailing Clay with his role in J.T.'s death. Please God, let me wrong, because if that happens, Piney's death will be a ticking bomb between Jax and Opie who have always been the best of friends. I would hate for their friendship to be destroyed by this.