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SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments
- Thread starter timothy
- Start date
Was it me or was David Hasselhoff actually kind-of good in that ep?
And at first, it occurred to me that Juice's cooperation with the cops might be a set-up, akin to what Jax did to Stahl last season. After his panic towards the end, though, I'm not too sure.
There's something I don't get about the "race card" premise that the Sheriff is playing on. Does the MC really care about color? Would they care if Juice had a black father? They have that whole all-black MC in Lodi whom they call brothers - even though they're not SOA, they're still a patch-over. And I highly doubt that happy is Lilly-White either. Sure, there weren't any "brothers" on the wall in the club house as the Sheriff so subtly mentioned before destroying the photos, but I'm thinking the premise to be somewhat flawed in this case. Anyone else think this besides me?
And at first, it occurred to me that Juice's cooperation with the cops might be a set-up, akin to what Jax did to Stahl last season. After his panic towards the end, though, I'm not too sure.
There's something I don't get about the "race card" premise that the Sheriff is playing on. Does the MC really care about color? Would they care if Juice had a black father? They have that whole all-black MC in Lodi whom they call brothers - even though they're not SOA, they're still a patch-over. And I highly doubt that happy is Lilly-White either. Sure, there weren't any "brothers" on the wall in the club house as the Sheriff so subtly mentioned before destroying the photos, but I'm thinking the premise to be somewhat flawed in this case. Anyone else think this besides me?
I agree about Juice. I think he could have sussed out Jax's stance or Happy's. On the other hand, Juice has often been the butt of jokes and pranks and might not feel he's fully in for life as an MC member. Also, if he's been so used to burying that part of his life, maybe even before he joined the club, he might just be playing out some kind of self-loathing that really wouldn't have mattered had he just straight up talked to Jax or Clay.
Think back to Piney's attitude towards the Niner's when Jax was thinking that it might have been them who had killed Donna. Juice may not have any real problem from having a black father, but he may have picked up enough crap in life growing up and even attitudes in the club that dispose him to not trusting the MC in the matter of his background. The business with the missing coke may render all this moot very quickly, though.
Just saw this weeks' ep, wow! This season is really fantastic!
Yeah, that episode really had me on the edge of my seat throughout the hour. I think Clay is going to try to kill Piney and Tara because even though he could get rid of all the letters, there's still the fact that Tara and Piney would still have knowledge of those letters which is dangerous enough to Clay.
I continue to think that this is the season that Jax finds out the truth of his father's death. All signs this season seem to point to that.
I continue to think that this is the season that Jax finds out the truth of his father's death. All signs this season seem to point to that.
I've been questioning Juice's fears as a motivation for his actions, too. If SoA is racist, or if Juice is mistakenly worried about that, the show should have made the point more clearly so that Juice wouldn't come off looking like a panicky ditz.
What he's doing is incredibly dangerous, and although he's never been portrayed at the sharpest tool in the shed, there should have been one incident that causes him to think that the Sons would give a shit if they found out his father was black. This should have been some kind of mistake on his part - for SoA to be portrayed as truly racist would be a bad idea, because they would lose audience sympathy - but as long as the writers got the point across that Juice would believe they are racist without needing to be doltish, then that's all the setup they needed.
But I can't remember any scene setting things up. Then again, I can't remember how Lorraine was killed (was Tom Arnold really the killer?)
As for the lack of black Sons, Charming just seems to be a white sort of town, and there are other motorcycle clubs for people to join that are based on race. But I don't get the feeling that there's any serious discrimination involved, just people sorting themselves as they feel comfortable. Once someone is accepted, like Juice, that would override all other concerns. This plotline is making Juice look stupid or the Sons look petty.
He delivered that line about not being just a giant penis without breaking into laughter, so good for him. (Tig's reaction was hilarious.)
Yes, this concern that Juice has about the club finding out that his dad is black is falling rather flat for me. Some individual members may occasionally make racist comments (and off the top of my head I can't even recall any), but so far the club as a whole hasn't been portrayed as having such prejudices. They sure didn't seem to give a damn when it came time for business deals with the One-Niners, though I suppose that could be rationalized as simply being good business.
was'nt there a club spin off of son's in season 2 that had black members in it?
all so when they had to get the truck back from those black kids they never used any racial slur aginst them. so this makes no sense for juice to do this. I am all so surprised they have'nt brought back the mayan's the mexican rival gang.
this season is so much better than last that's for sure. ( 8 episodes left)
all so when they had to get the truck back from those black kids they never used any racial slur aginst them. so this makes no sense for juice to do this. I am all so surprised they have'nt brought back the mayan's the mexican rival gang.
this season is so much better than last that's for sure. ( 8 episodes left)
I think you're referring to the Indian Hills, Nevada, chapter, which was originally the Devil's Tribe before being patched in, but I can't recall if that MC had any black members or not.
As for the Mayans, we have seen them this year, in episode 2. Marcus Alvarez was the one who introduced Clay to Romero Parada.
As for the Mayans, we have seen them this year, in episode 2. Marcus Alvarez was the one who introduced Clay to Romero Parada.
The all-black members are the "Grim Bastards" out of Lodi. They aren't Sons, but they are a long-time associated club that may be considered a patch-over in the same way that the Calaveras are a patch-over for the Mayans.
The only indication that we've been given that the Sons don't have black members was the Sheriff's comment when he wrecked the wall of photos. Beyond that, there has been absolutely no on-screen evidence whatsoever that SAMCRO is a WASPs-only organization. Hell, we also know that Bobby is Jewish. Sheriff Roosevelt, or whatever his name is, makes SAMCRO look like the Klan on war-training.
All in all, the whole race card thing just seems to be an anorexically thin plot device to manufacture false tension within the club. I'm hoping this will all be explained away at some point, but it's not looking like it. Other than this, though, I am thoroughly enjoying this season.
The only indication that we've been given that the Sons don't have black members was the Sheriff's comment when he wrecked the wall of photos. Beyond that, there has been absolutely no on-screen evidence whatsoever that SAMCRO is a WASPs-only organization. Hell, we also know that Bobby is Jewish. Sheriff Roosevelt, or whatever his name is, makes SAMCRO look like the Klan on war-training.
All in all, the whole race card thing just seems to be an anorexically thin plot device to manufacture false tension within the club. I'm hoping this will all be explained away at some point, but it's not looking like it. Other than this, though, I am thoroughly enjoying this season.
Great episode tonight. The tension in SOA keeps getting bigger and bigger with each episode.
I glad they brought closure to the Ima situation which I felt wasn't fully resolved or addressed after Jax's rescue of Tara last season. I think Jax effectively made his point in Ima.
I applauded Piney punching Opie. Opie did deserve it by the way he has been acting lately. I hope Opie and Lyla make up somehow and that Opie learns to let go of Donna's shadow on his marriage. But I worry about Piney. I mean why hasn't he been pushing Clay about his answer to the threat he made? Is he wondering what's the point of it all?
I am shocked by how Clay could order a hit on Tara, Jax's wife-to-be and mother of his kids, with Romano's help and then act all friendly and warm with a clueless Jax afterwards. Clay is a cold bastard. I'm glad Unser took some action to protect Tara but I fear all this plotting is going to blow up big time and Jax won't be kept in the dark about what's really going on for long.
Juice truly crossed the point of no return in this episode. Before killing Miles, he had the chance to fess up and try to make things right with his fellow Sons like Chibs did when Stahl tried to turn him into a rat in Season 2. But that chance is gone and whatever way this situation goes, I fear Juice is going to die. I still don't get why the Sons have a no-blacks rule for. I know Chibs said that it has been around for some time and that the rules are the rules but I don't get the reasoning behind it. I do think Chibs suspects Juice is up to something based the chat they hade back in the warehouse. I bet he is going to find out about Juice being a rat before the others.
I glad they brought closure to the Ima situation which I felt wasn't fully resolved or addressed after Jax's rescue of Tara last season. I think Jax effectively made his point in Ima.
I applauded Piney punching Opie. Opie did deserve it by the way he has been acting lately. I hope Opie and Lyla make up somehow and that Opie learns to let go of Donna's shadow on his marriage. But I worry about Piney. I mean why hasn't he been pushing Clay about his answer to the threat he made? Is he wondering what's the point of it all?
I am shocked by how Clay could order a hit on Tara, Jax's wife-to-be and mother of his kids, with Romano's help and then act all friendly and warm with a clueless Jax afterwards. Clay is a cold bastard. I'm glad Unser took some action to protect Tara but I fear all this plotting is going to blow up big time and Jax won't be kept in the dark about what's really going on for long.
Juice truly crossed the point of no return in this episode. Before killing Miles, he had the chance to fess up and try to make things right with his fellow Sons like Chibs did when Stahl tried to turn him into a rat in Season 2. But that chance is gone and whatever way this situation goes, I fear Juice is going to die. I still don't get why the Sons have a no-blacks rule for. I know Chibs said that it has been around for some time and that the rules are the rules but I don't get the reasoning behind it. I do think Chibs suspects Juice is up to something based the chat they hade back in the warehouse. I bet he is going to find out about Juice being a rat before the others.
So the Sons do have some bullshit racist rule on the books? 
Well, then, everything Juice is doing is their fault. I hope things don't end badly for Juice...
Probably the rule has been in place for years and never challenged because no black guy ever tried to become a member. If Juice was more of a forceful personality with a strong sense of self, instead of being buffalloed by Roosevelt into betraying the Sons, he'd have stomped into the club with his family photo album under his arm and yelled, "listen up bitches, it's time for SAMCRO to join the 21st Century!!!"
The funny thing is, I can't envision Juice doing that. How odd, for a motorcycle gang member to be something of a shrinking violet.
Chibs suuuuure is suspicious, isn't he?
But here's a nicer and maybe more plausible explanation: the rule isn't racist so much as tribalistic. They already knew Juice was Puerto Rican, and it's common for Puerto Ricans to have African ancestry. That, combined with Juice's skin color, should have been enough to "out" him as possibly part black. How could it possibly matter that his black ancestors lived on the mainland rather than a Caribbean island?
But that's not really the issue, because the real issue is his tribal loyalties. There aren't enough Puerto Ricans in California for them to be a force in the gang world, like blacks and Mexicans are. So for Juice to be Puerto Rican doesn't cast suspicion on his loyalties. If he were black or Mexican, or maybe even Russian, it would be a problem simply because the MC would always have to wonder if he might join a rival gang. In which case, it does matter that his black ancestors lived on the mainland rather than a Caribbean island.
If that's the explanation, I think Kurt Sutter needs to make it all clearer to the audience because at this point I'm sure everyone is pretty confused. A "tribal" explanation for the Son's rule plus Juice's already-established lack of intelligence and self-regard would be enough to justify this plotline without anyone needing to be "at fault" - a true tragedy in the making.
Well, then, everything Juice is doing is their fault. I hope things don't end badly for Juice...Probably the rule has been in place for years and never challenged because no black guy ever tried to become a member. If Juice was more of a forceful personality with a strong sense of self, instead of being buffalloed by Roosevelt into betraying the Sons, he'd have stomped into the club with his family photo album under his arm and yelled, "listen up bitches, it's time for SAMCRO to join the 21st Century!!!"
The funny thing is, I can't envision Juice doing that. How odd, for a motorcycle gang member to be something of a shrinking violet.
Chibs suuuuure is suspicious, isn't he?
Maybe the older guys were more racist back in the day when they started the club. I can't see them caring now, though, and the younger guys would all side with Juice.
But here's a nicer and maybe more plausible explanation: the rule isn't racist so much as tribalistic. They already knew Juice was Puerto Rican, and it's common for Puerto Ricans to have African ancestry. That, combined with Juice's skin color, should have been enough to "out" him as possibly part black. How could it possibly matter that his black ancestors lived on the mainland rather than a Caribbean island?
But that's not really the issue, because the real issue is his tribal loyalties. There aren't enough Puerto Ricans in California for them to be a force in the gang world, like blacks and Mexicans are. So for Juice to be Puerto Rican doesn't cast suspicion on his loyalties. If he were black or Mexican, or maybe even Russian, it would be a problem simply because the MC would always have to wonder if he might join a rival gang. In which case, it does matter that his black ancestors lived on the mainland rather than a Caribbean island.
If that's the explanation, I think Kurt Sutter needs to make it all clearer to the audience because at this point I'm sure everyone is pretty confused. A "tribal" explanation for the Son's rule plus Juice's already-established lack of intelligence and self-regard would be enough to justify this plotline without anyone needing to be "at fault" - a true tragedy in the making.
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