Something I just noticed about WoK

[Dale Sams]

Only two references are made to Marla McGivers. Both indirect. One about being killed by a Ceti Eel, and the other some 55 minutes later:

"I will leave you as you left her, marooned on a dead planet."

Props to the producers for not pounding us over the heads with the exposition hammer.

 

[Leto_II]

There was at least one direct reference to Lt. McGivers in the shooting script (and was, presumably, filmed), but this didn't make it into any of the final cut(s) of the movie:

CHEKOV
Captain Kirk was your host! You repaid his hospitality by trying to steal his ship and murder him.

KHAN
(moves closer)
And I'll wager he never told you about his shipmate, the beautiful and courageous Lieutenant McGiver, who gave up everything to join me in exile. OUT OF LOVE. And see how Admiral Kirk requited her devotion -- She's dead as earth!

The wind howls in the silence. When Khan turns, his eyes are filled with tears.

KHAN
(continuing)
A plague upon you all.

He recovers his poise, and returns to them --

KHAN
(continuing)
You didn't expect to find me. You thought this was Ceti Alpha VI. Why are you here?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Good thing they cut it.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Yeah, it wasn't necessary. Also, it reads, to me at least, a bit too much like the old comic book school of writing: "But...but you're dead! I saw you die!" "Fool! That is what I wanted you to believe..." .

 

[Clark Terrell]

Yeah, it wasn't necessary. Also, it reads, to me at least, a bit too much like the old comic book school of writing: "But...but you're dead! I saw you die!" "Fool! That is what I wanted you to believe..." .

Make it stop.

 

[Hober Mallow]

There was also a reference in a conversation between Turrell and Kirk.

Turrell: He blames you for the death of his wife.

Kirk: I know what he blames me for!

 

[Clark Terrell]

There was also a reference in a conversation between Turrell and Kirk.

Turrell: He blames you for the death of his wife.

Kirk: I know what he blames me for!

Ahem...

 

[Hober Mallow]

There was also a reference in a conversation between Turrell and Kirk.

Turrell: He blames you for the death of his wife.

Kirk: I know what he blames me for!

Ahem...

Turrell, Terrell, tomato, to-mah-to.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The art of subtly in script writing. You don't need to beat the audience around the head with information, sometime a slight tip of the hat is more than enough.

 

[Maab]

There was at least one direct reference to Lt. McGivers in the shooting script (and was, presumably, filmed), but this didn't make it into any of the final cut(s) of the movie:

Yes, it was filmed. It's in the workprint.

Best,
Maab

 

[BillJ]

The art of subtly in script writing. You don't need to beat the audience around the head with information, sometime a slight tip of the hat is more than enough.

What subtlety? They actually wrote and filmed a scene that mentions McGivers. It just didn't make the final cut of the film. Not sure how you give the writer(s) a pass for it?

 

[Leto_II]

Although, to be sure in this particular case, the screenwriter was also overseeing the film editing, so we can probably give Meyer SOME credit for nipping this one in the bud.

 

[JarodRussell]

Only two references are made to Marla McGivers. Both indirect. One about being killed by a Ceti Eel, and the other some 55 minutes later:

"I will leave you as you left her, marooned on a dead planet."

Props to the producers for not pounding us over the heads with the exposition hammer.

See, this is what I'm saying every time this Trek continuity baggage discussion comes up. You don't NEED to know the episode Space Seed to understand the movie. All you need to know is that Kirk exiled Khan after he tried to take over the ship, and that his wife died in exile. That's it. You don't need to know any specifics.

There is also no episode that shows how Kirk met Carol. Or an episode that shows how Saavik met Spock. Same thing as if Space Seed had never existed to show how Kirk met Khan.

All those “Can't do this or that because the audience will be confused.“ Forget it, it's absolute bullshit. From the point of view of a newcomer, there is no fucking difference between a backstory reference to an event in a previous episode and a backstory reference to an event that has never been shown before. No difference at all.

 

[Clark Terrell]

See, this is what I'm saying every time this Trek continuity baggage discussion comes up. You don't NEED to know the episode Space Seed to understand the movie. All you need to know is that Kirk exiled Khan after he tried to take over the ship, and that his wife died in exile. That's it. You don't need to know any specifics.

There is also no episode that shows how Kirk met Carol. Or an episode that shows how Saavik met Spock. Same thing as if Space Seed had never existed to show how Kirk met Khan.

All those “Can't do this or that because the audience will be confused.“ Forget it, it's absolute bullshit. From the point of view of a newcomer, there is no fucking difference between a backstory reference to an event in a previous episode and a backstory reference to an event that has never been shown before. No difference at all.

I agree. Not everything needs loads of exposition behind it. There's no explanation for why Chekov is on Reliant or why Kirk is an admiral again after TMP, but none of these things should dampen one's enjoyment of the film. If anything, I think it's more fun to speculate on what happened between the films to get to where things stood at the outset of TWOK.

 

[BillJ]

Although, to be sure in this particular case, the screenwriter was also overseeing the film editing, so we can probably give Meyer SOME credit for nipping this one in the bud.

People don't seem to understand how collaborative a process film is. Meyer may have cut it at the end but he still wrote and filmed the dialogue. The trim may have also come from input from someone else, like Bennett or even a studio exec.

Movies and TV aren't made in a vacuum where the writers vision comes to the screen in its original form.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

See, this is what I'm saying every time this Trek continuity baggage discussion comes up. You don't NEED to know the episode Space Seed to understand the movie. All you need to know is that Kirk exiled Khan after he tried to take over the ship, and that his wife died in exile. That's it. You don't need to know any specifics.

Well, that's pretty specific for a sequel to Space Seed.

There is also no episode that shows how Kirk met Carol. Or an episode that shows how Saavik met Spock. Same thing as if Space Seed had never existed to show how Kirk met Khan.

The difference is that TWOK is a sequel to Space Seed--the movie would not exist if not for the characters and situations of that episode, unlike (then) previously unknown meetings between Carol and Kirk, or anyone else. Once you base a script on another story, you do have an obligation to connect some dots in a film catering to the TOS fanbase.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Yeah, it wasn't necessary. Also, it reads, to me at least, a bit too much like the old comic book school of writing: "But...but you're dead! I saw you die!" "Fool! That is what I wanted you to believe..." .

It doesn't quite work without the emphasis:

BUT...
BUT YOU'RE DEAD! I
SAW YOU DIE!

FOOL! THAT IS
WHAT I WANTED YOU
TO BELIEVE...
​

 

[JarodRussell]

See, this is what I'm saying every time this Trek continuity baggage discussion comes up. You don't NEED to know the episode Space Seed to understand the movie. All you need to know is that Kirk exiled Khan after he tried to take over the ship, and that his wife died in exile. That's it. You don't need to know any specifics.

Well, that's pretty specific for a sequel to Space Seed.

It isn't specific at all. You could even leave out the "take over the ship" part. The "wife died in exile" part didn't even happen in the episode.

 

[Shat Happens]

fwiw, I hadn't seen Space Seed when I first watched STII and I enjoyed the movie fine.

 

[Kronos]

Good thing they cut it.

No kidding, that reads as bad as some of the crud new trek has produced.