In Star Trek 3, the CNC says that the Mutara sector was off limits, and only the science team was allowed there. Why would Starfleet only send a weak science vessel there without any proper escort? I would have sent at least several escort vessels (Frigates or better) to support the Grissom. Any thoughts?
Something about ST3
- Thread starter thesonofodin
- Start date
Ok, but as top secret as Genesis was, wouldnt you forsee any enemy activity that would compromise the process? That would be like having 1 prison guard watching 3000 inmates.
I would think it was. It posted a science outpost there without any ships posted there. Reliant was only there to perform survey missions on planets, which makes me think of another question: Why would they use a heavy frigate to perform planetary surveys instead of a science ship?
Then if it was deep inside Federation territory, they wouldn't have reason to think an enemy would go there, especially if they had no intelligence on the theft/sale of the Genesis video. And given the energies present, they probably figured it wasn't worth risking any more than the science team who had to be there.
And I don't think the Grissom suffered from a lack of defenses. It suffered from a hesitant captain.
And I don't think the Grissom suffered from a lack of defenses. It suffered from a hesitant captain.
Novel explains that one a little bit better. The Reliant was an old ship, contemporary to the Enterprise and also looking to be put out to pasture and given a mission that pretty much reflected its diminished role (the Genesis assignment was as far from 'choice' as you could get).
The Federation was already looking to completely modernize the fleet, and that meant replacing all those ships from the 2240s. Granted, TNG mucks this up by reusing all the TWOK and SFS models...
It's been mentioned before and it seems to be true--
the roles of Reliant and Grisson should have been reversed in the films.
Before the Genesis Planet existed, when it was a matter of scouting out potential planet test sites, the Grissom would have been the better choice. No sensitive materials, no security risks. Just scouting out possible planets for a test site.
Afterwards, the Genesis Planet is created. Science investigation is in order yes, but also security and quarantine measures--a job better suited for the Reliant.
All I can think is Morrow was right about Genesis being a galactic controversy and a sensitive subject. Perhaps the appearance of an armed ship like the Reliant would have inflamed those proclaiming the Genesis Project a military weapon. Perhaps Grissom was specifically assigned the mission to show that Genesis was intended as strictly scientific. Or something.
the roles of Reliant and Grisson should have been reversed in the films.
Before the Genesis Planet existed, when it was a matter of scouting out potential planet test sites, the Grissom would have been the better choice. No sensitive materials, no security risks. Just scouting out possible planets for a test site.
Afterwards, the Genesis Planet is created. Science investigation is in order yes, but also security and quarantine measures--a job better suited for the Reliant.
All I can think is Morrow was right about Genesis being a galactic controversy and a sensitive subject. Perhaps the appearance of an armed ship like the Reliant would have inflamed those proclaiming the Genesis Project a military weapon. Perhaps Grissom was specifically assigned the mission to show that Genesis was intended as strictly scientific. Or something.
The Grissom wasn't completely unarmed, and probably was an acceptable choice for all the powers to do the exploration. Captain Pink-Chair was also a good choice for a beauraucrat to do everything by the book and keep all the politicos happy. I think they tried to portray that Esteban's position was being dictated by the Federation Council directly but he came off as whiny and ineffective. A single line from him about "Saavik, our orders are from the VERY top and we need to be careful," would have gone a long away.
1. plot contrivance
2. Starfleet has frequently been shown to be utterly incompetent when it comes to strategy. How many times has the Enterprise been "the only ship in range" to intercept a threat/rescue a vessel when THEY'RE RIGHT NEAR EARTH?
You can imagine these idiots figuring a weak science vessel would do fine to handle a strategically important planet.
2. Starfleet has frequently been shown to be utterly incompetent when it comes to strategy. How many times has the Enterprise been "the only ship in range" to intercept a threat/rescue a vessel when THEY'RE RIGHT NEAR EARTH?
You can imagine these idiots figuring a weak science vessel would do fine to handle a strategically important planet.
And, as the first Klingon gunner explains, when the Grissom explodes, "Lucky shot" - and then Kruge kills him for losing a host of useful prisoners of war. So the ship was accidentally destroyed.
Which itself is in conflict with the TV series. (A people that doesn't take prisoners would have little use for a Mind Sifter.)
The Kobayashi Maru scenario should have featured Romulans rather than Klingons, but they decided to go with Klingons because they're more familiar. (As if to drive the point home, my spellchecker recognizes "Klingons" but not "Romulans.")
No kidding.
In "The Deadly Years", near Gamma Hydra, the Enterprise ran into the Romulans. This was around The Neutral Zone.
In TWOK's Kobayashi Maru scenario--again near Gamma Hydra and The Neutral Zone--suddenly it's the Klingons.
Shoulda been the Romulans.
Unless part of the training scenario was to introduce surprise to the cadets. And yes, it's possible Klingons could really be near Gamma Hydra section of The Romulan Neutral Zone. But still.
In "The Deadly Years", near Gamma Hydra, the Enterprise ran into the Romulans. This was around The Neutral Zone.
In TWOK's Kobayashi Maru scenario--again near Gamma Hydra and The Neutral Zone--suddenly it's the Klingons.
Shoulda been the Romulans.
Unless part of the training scenario was to introduce surprise to the cadets. And yes, it's possible Klingons could really be near Gamma Hydra section of The Romulan Neutral Zone. But still.
At this point in the movie, Kirk & Company were in pretty humorous moods. i would take his quote about Kingons & prisoners as seriously as his assessment that the cadets couldn't steer. i think Kirk just said that to scare his cadets into taking all this stuff seriously.
And anyway, Kruge seemed to be a rogue agent of the Klingon empire, or at least one with plausible denialability. If he messed up (as he did), he wasn't doing so under official auspices. But if he succeeded, the "honorable" klingons would have found a way to justify the theft.
i'd say this is an excdellent justification for Grissom.
PR was more of a concern than security, especially as this was within Federation space.
Klingons don't take prisoners... for the purpose of rescuing other beings defeated in battle and being held. If prisoners serve a purpose, however, then they'll happily take them. Kruge wanted information on Genesis, mainly how to replicate the torpedo, so taking prisoners from the Grissom to either strong arm into telling him how it was made, or to use as hostages against the Federation makes perfect sense as far as the portrayal of the Klingons is concerned.
But, if they wreck your ship, they'll leave you for dead.
But, if they wreck your ship, they'll leave you for dead.
I think a large presence of ships to a particular sector would have been akin to telling the Klingons and Romulans that "We're doing something over here." In comparison, a single little science vessel like the Grissom wouldn't have attracted much notice.
Had Kruge not stolen the data on Genesis, he would never have went to the Mutara Sector and the ship could have conducted its mission and gone home without incident, IMO.
Two reasons: Proves what a beserker Kruge was, doing things that no one expected, not even his crew, and...
In the original script treatment, Kruge was a Romulan pirate.
