Exactly so.
Some Suggestions for Fan Films
- Thread starter Mark 2000
- Start date
Exactly so.
But I already....never mind....Be glad he rejected the "skant" uniform variant or else you'd have had to shave something else, too!
This is very true. I look way better in First Contact uniform than I do in a TOS uniform. Not to mention, those First Contact jumpsuits really help your posture too.
And I agree, the Polaris uniforms are fantastic. Dennis and John did a great job on those.
Thanks. I think John and I finished our last one this week.
Until, you know, some hypothetical sequel.
Until, you know, some hypothetical sequel.
I live in hope. For all the pizza if nothing else.Thanks. I think John and I finished our last one this week.
Until, you know, some hypothetical sequel.
He cut his hair to play Commander Branch.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0163.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0163.jpg
I read somewhere (possibly "The Making of Star Trek"), that Roddenberry wanted to have all of the main cast cut their hair into futuristic hairdos. The cast were so against this idea -- since they till had to walk around in everyday life with their hair -- that the compromise was that everyone got pointy sideburns, but kept their regular haircuts -- except Nimoy, but if you notice, during this period, he wore very large black glasses when off the set, which hid his eyebrows and haircut rather well.
Well, if you were really going for the Phase II look your ship would be this and your bridge would be this. So conjectural hair is a bit of an odd thing to focus on.
Honestly, its the LOL factor. No hair cut on a Star Fleet crewman makes me want to LOL. Civilians are another story - Kahn's mullet, the mullets on the scientists in "Home Soil", the Hippies in "Eden". We can all agree these were mistakes. You can make the tech any vintage you want. The future is not foreseeable and any tech that blinks and beeps is going to be ok as long and it doesn't look cheap. But hair styles? I don't think modern popular hairstyles should be used in a sci-fi military show - thinking about hipster bead head - let alone popular hairstyles that can be dated to the past. Seeing 70's hair in an old or new production makes me LOL. It's distracting. An identifiably modern haircut makes me feel the same.
Yeah, Denis. I saw your vids while looking for a picture of the phase ii E. Nice stuff.
If memory serves, Cawley was going to do the phase II refit design http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/news20080827a.html but decided not to after fan outcry.
Sheesh! I didn't intend to turn this thread into a hairdo forth-and-back. It just seems long to me, but that doesn't diminish the enjoyment of the episodes. And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't see a lot of folks these days with that kind of haircut, so that's why I referred to it as "2011 sensibilities." I'm sure there are folks like that out there, but they just never pass my way.
I would agree that hairstyles are indeed an odd thing for fans to focus on. But I think to say that the Phase II production team focuses on hair is a bit of mischaracterization; it’s simply one element we consider—one of many such elements. We try to consider so much stuff in our productions: hair, make-up, costumes, props, lighting, cinematography, set design, sound, editing, casting, and, of course, script writing.
I also think that I might not have been clear earlier: we aren’t going for a “Phase II look;” we are actually going for a look that uniquely incorporates a number of elements from TOS, TAS, the aborted Phase II series, and TMP (and even later Trek movies and series to the degree that they aren’t nonsensical anachronistic references). We aren’t going for a Phase II look; it’s more of a fun hybrid look which simply includes many elements from the aborted Phase II series.
With a budget of, well, $0.00, it’s not actually too surprising that we should be considering the element of hairstyles: with pretty limited funds, it’s one of the elements we can actually afford to address. There are not a lot of elements we can change from a TOS look to a hybridized Phase II look.
Here are some things we have been able to afford to do:
We can and did blow a bunch of money buying the original Phase II Starfleet uniform costumes for use in our series.
We have upgraded some of our props to TMP-era props.
We have produced two scripts from the aborted Phase II series.
We have introduced the character of Lieutenant Xon.
We have included the TAS character of Lieutenant Arex.
We have included a (CGI) vertical warp core shaft as seen in the aborted Phase II series.
We can upgrade our CGI model as you suggest to a Phase II-style Enterprise. In fact, we announced our intention to do exactly that a couple of years ago at TrekMovie.com:
http://trekmovie.com/2008/08/28/fanmade-new-phase-ii-enterprsie-ogam-announce-dvd/
After the J.J. Abrams movie came out, our fans realized that one of the few places they would ever get to see the classic Enterprise again is in our productions. So, by popular demand, we reconsidered our decision. It may still happen; time will tell.
Yes, we can even give our actors hair and makeup styles that resemble the available Phase II production materials.
Things we probably won’t be doing:
We probably won’t get rid of Mister Spock simply because he wasn’t in the aborted Phase II series.
We probably won’t introduce Lieutenant Ilia.
We might introduce Commander Decker at some point, but don’t count on it.
We probably won’t find enough money (or studio space) to build new sets that are replicas of Mike Minor’s aborted Phase II series sets.
So the elements from each of the various iterations of Star Trek that we choose to incorporate into our fan-based series are, as is so often the case, driven largely by finances and practicality.
But, of course, the original point of all this is that non-2011 military hairstyle and grooming that resemble more than anything else, late 1970s hair is actually a conscious production decision that our actors humor us on. I fully understand that you would have made different production decisions regarding Starfleet hairstyles.
I also think that I might not have been clear earlier: we aren’t going for a “Phase II look;” we are actually going for a look that uniquely incorporates a number of elements from TOS, TAS, the aborted Phase II series, and TMP (and even later Trek movies and series to the degree that they aren’t nonsensical anachronistic references). We aren’t going for a Phase II look; it’s more of a fun hybrid look which simply includes many elements from the aborted Phase II series.
With a budget of, well, $0.00, it’s not actually too surprising that we should be considering the element of hairstyles: with pretty limited funds, it’s one of the elements we can actually afford to address. There are not a lot of elements we can change from a TOS look to a hybridized Phase II look.
Here are some things we have been able to afford to do:
We can and did blow a bunch of money buying the original Phase II Starfleet uniform costumes for use in our series.
We have upgraded some of our props to TMP-era props.
We have produced two scripts from the aborted Phase II series.
We have introduced the character of Lieutenant Xon.
We have included the TAS character of Lieutenant Arex.
We have included a (CGI) vertical warp core shaft as seen in the aborted Phase II series.
We can upgrade our CGI model as you suggest to a Phase II-style Enterprise. In fact, we announced our intention to do exactly that a couple of years ago at TrekMovie.com:
http://trekmovie.com/2008/08/28/fanmade-new-phase-ii-enterprsie-ogam-announce-dvd/
After the J.J. Abrams movie came out, our fans realized that one of the few places they would ever get to see the classic Enterprise again is in our productions. So, by popular demand, we reconsidered our decision. It may still happen; time will tell.
Yes, we can even give our actors hair and makeup styles that resemble the available Phase II production materials.
Things we probably won’t be doing:
We probably won’t get rid of Mister Spock simply because he wasn’t in the aborted Phase II series.
We probably won’t introduce Lieutenant Ilia.
We might introduce Commander Decker at some point, but don’t count on it.
We probably won’t find enough money (or studio space) to build new sets that are replicas of Mike Minor’s aborted Phase II series sets.
So the elements from each of the various iterations of Star Trek that we choose to incorporate into our fan-based series are, as is so often the case, driven largely by finances and practicality.
But, of course, the original point of all this is that non-2011 military hairstyle and grooming that resemble more than anything else, late 1970s hair is actually a conscious production decision that our actors humor us on. I fully understand that you would have made different production decisions regarding Starfleet hairstyles.
Hello. I’m Benjamin Sisko.
Look over to the picture of the guy at your right. Now look back at me. Now back to your right. Now back at me.
I was kind of wimpy, wasn’t I? Bland. Ineffectual. Not very commanding despite being a Commander.
But then something happened: I grew a Van Dyke! Behold, my mighty Van Dyke! Commanding! Intimidating! A Van Dyke--for the Man of Action I always knew I could be.
Not only that, but just four episodes after I grew this Van Dyke, Starfleet promoted me to the rank of Captain.
Coincidence? Hardly.
I know: you're thinking “Naw, Starfleet promoted Sisko because he shaved his head!” But look at my collar. No, really look: Captain’s rank pips! See? Starfleet promoted me to Captain in the last episode of the third season after I had been wearing my badass Van Dyke for just a few weeks. I didn’t start shaving my head until the first episode of the fourth season. I tell you truthfully: it’s all about the Van Dyke.
Oh, I could shave it off to look more “clean cut” and “military.” But then I’d look like a pussy.
I know: you’re laughing out loud at my hipster, slacker Van Dyke because it’s not military enough. Which is odd, because I’m the one with my dirty boot on your scrawny throat as you lie on the floor; I’m the one pointing my phaser rifle at your head. You can call me "Captain Hipster!"
Still laughing outloud?
Mmmm, the first sign that you need to give up on a conversation is when the other person purposefully starts misstating what you said. I didn't say it was odd for fans to focus on it. Obviously there's a bunch of people in this thread who take notice of it.
What I said was that of all the things to take from Phase II, which you said you were trying to be true to in every sense (...we should make our sets and costumes and graphics and characters stories look like what we imagine the Phase II series would have looked like...), you spend time focusing on the hair. You're new message said you are picking and choosing from multiple options, which makes the hair an even odder decision. I said it was distracting. The thing that most people laugh at when they watch an old show is the hair styles. It's just an odd thing to want to emulate when it can lead to so much derision.
Sisko is pretty much the exception that proves the rule as far as facial hair. He basically winds up looking like "A Man Called Hawk" by the end which was probably Brooks pushing hard to have that look, which he obviously personally likes. The very fact that he started without it means the producers didn't really want it. And besides Mirror Spock there is not one officer on Trek with a beard until TNG, just the odd mustache. The only place van dykes were popular in the 60's and 70's was in the Nation of Islam.
He also pulls it off in a way many can't. He trims it really well. He combines it with a shaved head. It doesn't look like a donut hanging under his nose. Most guys on Trek fan films don't look like Avery Brooks, they look like the Excelsior helmsman.
I feel like you're getting defensive and you've made this conversation about you and your show. Like I said, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular. There are tons of other fan productions out there other than Phase II. I also am pointing the finger less at producers and more at people who clearly are afraid to look the part because they worry about their real world image.
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Man, there's an awful lot of rationalization for what's arguably a matter of taste and perception. 
Back to the subject at hand, let's not forget that Star Trek and fanfilms based on it are not and never have been attempts to portray the future...they portray identifiable modern people in a futuristic world. That said, as to fanfilms based on TOS, there were never any TOS Starfleet personnel portrayed as having beards or mustaches. We first saw those in (TAS aside) in TMP, and then they were just mustaches (unless there were some beards on the Rec Deck). Make of that what you will.
Back to the subject at hand, let's not forget that Star Trek and fanfilms based on it are not and never have been attempts to portray the future...they portray identifiable modern people in a futuristic world. That said, as to fanfilms based on TOS, there were never any TOS Starfleet personnel portrayed as having beards or mustaches. We first saw those in (TAS aside) in TMP, and then they were just mustaches (unless there were some beards on the Rec Deck). Make of that what you will.
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Hello. I’m Benjamin Sisko.
Look over to the picture of the guy at your right. Now look back at me. Now back to your right. Now back at me.
I was kind of wimpy, wasn’t I? Bland. Ineffectual. Not very commanding despite being a Commander.
But then something happened: I grew a Van Dyke! Behold, my mighty Van Dyke! Commanding! Intimidating! A Van Dyke--for the Man of Action I always knew I could be.
Not only that, but just four episodes after I grew this Van Dyke, Starfleet promoted me to the rank of Captain.
Coincidence? Hardly.
I know: you're thinking “Naw, Starfleet promoted Sisko because he shaved his head!” But look at my collar. No, really look: Captain’s rank pips! See? Starfleet promoted me to Captain in the last episode of the third season after I had been wearing my badass Van Dyke for just a few weeks. I didn’t start shaving my head until the first episode of the fourth season. I tell you truthfully: it’s all about the Van Dyke.
Oh, I could shave it off to look more “clean cut” and “military.” But then I’d look like a pussy.
I know: you’re laughing out loud at my hipster, slacker Van Dyke because it’s not military enough. Which is odd, because I’m the one with my dirty boot on your scrawny throat as you lie on the floor; I’m the one pointing my phaser rifle at your head. You can call me "Captain Hipster!"
Still laughing outloud?
:::whistles Old Spice tune:::
Actually yes.
Well it makes it easier to tell the good guys from the bad. ( Depending on a person's perspective...
)Odd is your hairdos make you look like the evil KLingons and the other guys are clean cut and you then realize that the film you are watching has the good guys with the Klignon hairdos.
( embarassing blush moment # 347 
) I guess then you are left to decide who the good guys are based off if they take baths. ( opps...don't tell that one at a con. I remember in the con packet a few years back they included bars of soap and alluded to the historical fanboy sterotype about not bathing. The crowd all tossed their soap at the stage. I think it was A-kon 7 in Dallas in 1997 if I recall...)And I see why Dennis is laughing. Right there with you pal...
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Telling the good guys from the bad guys based on their hairstyle? One day, perhaps in some distant century, we will live in a world where people will not be judged by the style of their hair, but by the content of their character.
Well it makes it easier to tell the good guys from the bad. ( Depending on a person's perspective...
Odd is your hairdos make you look like the evil KLingons and the other guys are clean cut and you then realize that the film you are watching has the good guys with the Klignon hairdos.
And I see why Dennis is laughing. Right there with you pal...
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