Some points about Star Trek VI:The Undiscovered Country

Personally the TOS movies were my first exposure to trek. To me it seemed like a realistic world.not an idealistic one, but not an overly cynical one either I think this movie is a good Trek Movie end cap, the movies just go down hill from here

 

Yeah, I do admit it would have had a dramatic effect. But probably only if they got Alley or even Curtis back. I'm not sure having Cattrall play Saavik would have had the same dramatic effect. They probably made a wise choice when they had to go with a different actress to make it a different character.

 

I actually did the submarine look of the enterprise but then again 20000 Leagues Under the Sea is my Favorite book ever

 

I agree completely.

I always felt Robin Curtis was underrated. As much as I liked Kirstie Alley, I thought Curtis’ performance evokes an understated care/sadness/joy towards David and Spock.

But without Alley or Curtis, yeah, gotta go with a different character.

 

Yeah, it wasn't because of Roddenberry's objections. Kim Cattrall didn't want to be the third actress to play the character in four movies and wanted the freedom to create her own character, which is certainly reasonable.

Exactly.

He did.

Alley was busy with Cheers at the time and she was likely too expensive for them.

She wasn't. Meyer wasn't interested in hiring her.

Correct. And I'd feel the same way in Meyer's shoes. Roddenberry created Star Trek, but he had jack to do with creating Saavik.

I doubt that Roddenberry cared much about Saavik as a character one way or the other. I think he cared about potentially pissing off the fans and jeopardizing his meal ticket.

I think it could've worked if they'd gotten Kirstie Alley to return to the role. It definitely would've been a lot more surprising.

No, it wouldn't have. Considering the circumstances, I think switching the character was the right call.

They couldn't have afforded either one at that point. (The total budget was around $30 million, IIRC. Less than what they spent on V.) That's why Meyer decided to go with a young unknown composer, the same as he did when he hired Horner for TWOK.

And I think Cliff Eidleman did a great job. VI is one of my favorite Trek scores.

 

Another thing that REALLY bugs me about VI is that it looks and feels like a TV movie.

This may sound funny/weird but it also bugs me we never see the characters in casual wear either. That combined with the confining, claustrophobic sets just added to the TV movie feel.

 

NuTrek would've done it, or at least made them half sisters or something.

 

As I understand it, if they had been able to do the preamble/prologue they intended, we would have seen most or all of our heroes in mufti before the classified briefing. They were all preparing to retire, after all.

 

Yeah, but it would've added another 1 million to the budget, and it was an easy cut since it wasn't relevant to the main plot, so...

 

I have to say that it also would have undermined the finale, when they get the order to bring the ship home to be decommissioned. If they had started out in civvies, then they would have already left her before. As it was in the film, they were still three months from standing down, and their time with the ship was getting cut short.

 

I think they were just meant to be on leave from active duty, like between missions or something. I don't think they were actually meant to be called out of retirement.

 

Ah, thank you.

 

A big problem with Valeris is that from her first scene she comes off as cold and generally unlikable. I don't think Catrall had a grip on what a Vulcan is beyond the "cold, unemotional, logical" stereotype.

 

I thought Cattrall had a cute look to her, which I think worked to combat her somewhat robotic-like Vulcan delivery.
In fact, I thought that she had a likable personality. "I've always wanted to try that sir." And she's like the by-the-book nerd who's telling the Captain what's regulation, and when he lets her know he's a rebel and does rebel things, she acknowledges it with almost a look of delight. She also suggests the crew get buzzed to make dinner-with-the-Klingons go smoother, which seems to endear her at first to Kirk and the audience. She's a bit of a rule breaker herself.

I think her big, expressive eyes kind of betrayed what's supposed to be an unemotional Vulcan demeanor. It was like Betty Boop with pointy ears. Her response to "You must be proud" was oft putting though, so I can see why she's off to a bad start with some people. I'll have to watch her performance and Kirstie Alley's to compare the two.

Okay, I just watched Saavik in the Kobayashi-Maru test. Alley's face is harder to read, so therefore, when she's acting Vulcan it just comes across as emotionally distant for business-purposes, whereas with Catrall, it's almost like she's stuck up or snobby. Two different delivery styles as well.

As much as I hate the original intent for Saavik to be the traitor, it would make sense in the context of what she went through with David. But I still think it's a cheap move to introduce a brand new character to the crew, one who the audience really responded well to, only to have her go bad, so that we're just stuck with the original 60s cast once again.
I really wish that Alley had returned as Saavik and we would have had Alley in all 5 movies.

 

I think it would have felt pretty small-universe for both Kirk and the traitor's animosity against the Klingons to stem from the same particular incident.

 

It would work though. Because it hammers home that it’s a choice being made.

 

I getcha. Didn't work for me, though. I don't think having a cute actress covers any multitude of sins with the performance. Unless she gets naked.

It just smacked of a cheap callback to Saavik in Wrath of Khan. In other words, bad self-referential writing. The character of Valeris has to balance being a dispassionate vulcan with being the plucky Girl Friday, and it doesn't work in the story. The two characterizations are too far apart, aren't reconciled well by the actor, and don't work to dissuade me from the obvious: that she is the "inside man" in the conspiracy.

 

Not at all, Meyer considered both composers but based on the budget he had he couldn't afford them and started researching composers who had done similar tunes he thought would be best fit for his movie. Eidelman was that guy.

All about the Benjamins, Kirstie Alley was a star in Hollywood and it would've cost a pretty penny to have her on board; also she would've demanded some heavy re-writes to be comparable to Shatner & Nimoy, this could've extended pre-production and from what is known the team had a production date to meet.

Actually you're in the silent majority, and I'm with you as well. I would've never bought Alley's Saavik as the traitor.

 

See, I never had an issue with Catrall's performance. I think her being another addition was interesting, and I would have hated Saavik being a traitor.

 

I suspect it was junked or parts repurposed for some other show shot on the lot. I never thought much of it as a set: some walls and windows. It was the set dressing that made it work.