Solar Sail?

[Timo]

I'd like to point out that there's nice naval precedent for the use of sails for life support.

Namely, ships of yore would have plenty of sails in stock, ready to be deployed; even some late steamships with fairly symbolic rigging could use their puny masts for actual emergency propulsion and would thus carry the necessary canvas. But even when propulsion failed and the rigging fell apart, the sails would have two very important alternate survival uses unrelated to propulsion: they could be used for shade, and they could be used to collect rain for drinking water. (They could also be used as drift anchors - underwater drag chutes that could stabilize the ship in a storm or hook her up to a helpful current. But that's "propulsive use" rather than life support.)

It would be a nice analogy there if a 23rd century starship carried some lightsail material for emergency propulsion use, but the Yorktown crew innovated and decided to use their standard emergency lightsail for the unusual application of reflecting starlight into a thermal power generator instead, thereby producing the desperately needed non-propulsive power to run life support systems. Lightsails really ought to be versatile like that. (Even the above mentioned classic lightsail novels feature such alternate uses: in Sunjammer, the sail serves as radiation protection.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

IIRC, there was no mention of solar sails or solar power in TOS. This excludes the movies and TAS; someone fill us in please if there was ever any mention/depiction in TAS. I don't remember any but it's been a while.

There were mentions of probes in "The Immunity Syndrome", and I always assumed that these were standard equipment aboard all starships. (If they arm their ships with torpedoes and if they employ sensors and scanners on the starship itself, why wouldn't they employ probes as well?) Funny thing was, we never actually saw the probes during "Immunity"; it was just one of those spoken things left to the viewers' imaginations. We heard the weapons-launching sound effect employed in concert with Ensign Checkov's announcement that each probe was launched, which would seem to strongly suggest that probes were launched in the same manner as photon torpedoes. This always made sense to me. YMMV.

We finally got to see probes being launched from a starship during TNG. ("Where Silence Has Lease", IIRC, and definitely during "The Defector")

"Immunity" did not make clear what motive power was employed for the probes launched into the Space Amoeba that destroyed the Gamma 7A star system and the Starship Intrepid. It should be readily assumed that probes and photon torpedoes would likely share many of the same components, possibly just swapping out the weapons ordinance for sensor/scanner package.

The notion of a solar-sail-powered probe seems incompatible with TOS or any of the other series in the TREK franchise. As the name suggests, a solar sail would be very slow relative to what other motive powers would be employed by Earth and later Federation starships.

That having been said, it is conceptually possible that solar sail technology could be used for some applications that do not require speed. (Maybe a long-term observation of a star or cluster of stars by a short-range probe.)

The Yorktown solar sail rigging mention in TMP4 always had me scratching my head. Never could make sense of it. Unless the U.S.S. Yorktown was carrying some special cargo that her engineer could quickly rig to capture the emissions of a nearby star for emergency power (sounds very unorthodox), I have no idea what the captain was talking about. Also, consider this: the Yorktown has apparently been disabled by the alien Whalesong Probe, yet she is still able to use her subspace radio for audio-visual communication. And if the ship is indeed disabled by some kind of energy-dampening field that killed the ship's power, why would any other means of power work?

 

[Wingsley]

BTW: the DS9 ep that clearly depicts a purely solar-sail-powered Bajoran spacecraft for the first time was "Explorers" (DS9 year 3, first aired in May, 1995)

 

[Christopher]

IIRC, there was no mention of solar sails or solar power in TOS. This excludes the movies and TAS; someone fill us in please if there was ever any mention/depiction in TAS. I don't remember any but it's been a while.

Nope, nothing in TAS. Like I said, it wasn't a concept that was well-known in popular culture yet. TVH was the first Trek reference and they didn't even get it right.

The notion of a solar-sail-powered probe seems incompatible with TOS or any of the other series in the TREK franchise. As the name suggests, a solar sail would be very slow relative to what other motive powers would be employed by Earth and later Federation starships.

Indeed so. Not to mention that solar power and solar propulsion are two separate things. A solar sail is a means of unpowered propulsion, not power generation.

That having been said, it is conceptually possible that solar sail technology could be used for some applications that do not require speed. (Maybe a long-term observation of a star or cluster of stars by a short-range probe.)

One could use a sail to park a probe at a fixed distance above a star, using the light pressure to counteract the star's gravity. The principle can also be used to counteract a planet's gravity (though still using sunlight), if you angle and shape the sail correctly.

The Yorktown solar sail rigging mention in TMP4 always had me scratching my head. Never could make sense of it. Unless the U.S.S. Yorktown was carrying some special cargo that her engineer could quickly rig to capture the emissions of a nearby star for emergency power (sounds very unorthodox), I have no idea what the captain was talking about.

I don't find it that hard to believe that a starship would happen to have photovoltaic cells aboard. They could have a variety of applications, such as being part of the ship's EM and optical sensors.

Also, consider this: the Yorktown has apparently been disabled by the alien Whalesong Probe, yet she is still able to use her subspace radio for audio-visual communication. And if the ship is indeed disabled by some kind of energy-dampening field that killed the ship's power, why would any other means of power work?

We don't know that it did work. We just know they were trying it. The impression I got was that what little power they had left was fading, so they were trying to rig a backup system in time to recharge whatever low-level systems survived the probe's damping field.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

^ It's from Tron

Elementary physics. A beam of energy can always be diverted. Are we there yet Mommy?

 

[Timo]

And if the ship is indeed disabled by some kind of energy-dampening field that killed the ship's power, why would any other means of power work?

It wouldn't be difficult to imagine that the effect of the Whale Probe would be temporary - that it would fry some circuits and suck dry the stored energy aboard (including "neutralizing the antimatter", a favorite trick of powerful aliens). After that, the ship would no longer be subjected to the energy-sucking effect, but the batteries would be dry and the fuel drained. After a bit of repairs, they could again receive energy and fuel, if the ship could just figure out where to get some.

A solar sail is a means of unpowered propulsion, not power generation.

But as pointed out, a conventional sail is a means of unpowered propulsion, too, yet can be used for life support in a variety of ways. And it is plausible for a powered vessel to have sails in stock for use in motive power failure situations...

I don't find it that hard to believe that a starship would happen to have photovoltaic cells aboard.

Or perhaps something that can turn focused heat into the desired type of power. It's a bit curious, though, how the Enterprise was unable to provide key spares for the reactor in "Devil in the Dark" - perhaps the workshops of a TOS era starship aren't quite as versatile as we think.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jayrath]

OK, I'm going to keep looking. I watched season 1 and 2 of TOS and all the movies before the latest movie and I swear there was a scene with a probe launched from a Federation ship, towards a planet. As it got close to the planet a huge golden sail unfurled. There was no mention of "solar sail" but I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Not sure if it was the Enterprise and I don't think it was Kirk.
Well, my mission continues...Thanks for the replies

This sounds very much like documentary footage of repairs made to the solar panels on NASA's Skylab. The golden "sail" actually was a separate feature, put in place to keep the sun from frying the thing.

 

[judge alba]

Was there an episode in the original series where a probe was launched at a planet and it was attached to a solar sail?

not sure but i know the enterprise put some satalites round a planet (deneva?) to kill some alien thingys using ultra violet rays or something, can't remember the episode at the moment, not sure if we saw that on screen.
other wise they used a probe to kill an a alien like above.

 

[Christopher]

not sure but i know the enterprise put some satalites round a planet (deneva?) to kill some alien thingys using ultra violet rays or something, can't remember the episode at the moment, not sure if we saw that on screen.

I already mentioned that earlier in the thread. It was "Operation -- Annihilate!," and yes, it was Deneva. The satellites were not shown in the original version of the episode, but they were shown in the recent TOS Remastered version.

 

[judge alba]

That's the episode been bugginh me for awhile

 

[Greg Cox]

OK, I'm going to keep looking. I watched season 1 and 2 of TOS and all the movies before the latest movie and I swear there was a scene with a probe launched from a Federation ship, towards a planet. As it got close to the planet a huge golden sail unfurled. There was no mention of "solar sail" but I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Not sure if it was the Enterprise and I don't think it was Kirk.
Well, my mission continues...Thanks for the replies

Your memory is deceiving you. That never happened on TOS.

 

[Class M]

You guys have been a big help, thanks. I'm sure there is a small percentage of you that might enjoy this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq6hPfoQetU&feature=player_embedded

There are a few inaccuracies that hard core trekkies will notice but all in all it's pretty accurate.

 

[T'Girl]

^^^ Maybe it's my computer, but that link just produces bad sound and garbage images.

Returning to the original thread, I watched Attack of the Clones last night and there is a scene where Christopher Lee (villain) escapes in a spacecraft with a solar sail, maybe Class M you're confusing that scene for a nonexistent one on Star Trek.

The sail was golden in color. The scene is near the end of the movie.

Photovoltaic cells aren't the only way to convert sunlight into electrical power, reflect and concentrate sunlight onto a vessel containing a fluid or gas, then feed the pressurized material through a turbine connected to a generator. Cool the material after it passes through the generator with a radiator, and return the material to the original vessel.

My father built one of these when I was a kid, using wire clothes hangers, aluminum foil and some stuff from the garage.

 

[DonIago]

^That was actually the first thought I'd had. That, then the mention in TVH, then Insurrection. Explorers didn't really occur to me.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

^ Thirty-fifty-six. Ninety-nine are correct. Limited four and eight are missing

I try to remember little lines like that, but I only ever half remembered the tribble calculation Spock came up with. But...

The only TOS-R episode I can recall that involved a ship releasing any kind of probes around a planet was "Operation: Annihilate!" where they showed the release of the UV satellites

...the UV satellites did occur to me too off the top of my head. I feel pleased somehow

 

[KarmicCurse]

The incredible Arthur C. Clarke wrote an excellent short story called "The Wind from the Sun" about a solar sailing competition which is really worth seeking out.