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Solar power in the Sahara

Bill Morris

Commodore
Commodore
With solar arrays (PV), it would take 1/50th of the unpopulated area of the Sahara (an area about the size of Switzerland) to meet all the world's current energy needs, even less if only eliminating fossil fuels and nuclear but not hydroelectric and wind.

But there's a better and cheaper way: using parabolic mirrors to heat water and run turbines (CSP [concentrated solar power]). Heat can also be stored in molten salt, etc. to even out electricity supply at night. Electric cars with plug-in to the home would also help even out supply in peak hours. No more need for gasoline. The new Telsa sports car is a preview of the potential of all-electric cars, and some major automakers are already considering the idea of all-electric with plug-in as a possible smart move for the future.

Investors do worry, though, about the political and security situation in the area. That's a major problem.

So far it's Algeria that's taking the lead. They have some CSP (combined with gas at night) plants up and runniing already, and they're having a power line to Germany installed so they can sell electricity. That country alone could supply the whole world if they had the investment.

Theoretically, CSP plants could produce mass quantities of fresh water as a by-product, by boiling seawater to produce steam to run turbines then collecting the steam as fresh water to put to good use.

Saudi Arabia has lots of desert and tons of money, but so far they have been fighting against renewable energy. No surprise.

But this has the potential to world cut carbon dioxide emissions to nearly zero, not to mention soak up some of that sunshine. It would take a lot of investment, but it would create a lot of profit, create jobs in Africa, and save a lot of money on things like carbon capture and other costs involved with countermeasures required when burning fossil fuels, not to mention allowing massive desalination projects to provide fresh water for Northern Africa and all the benefit that comes along with it.
 
I've never thought and/or heard about this! Sounds intriguing, do you have any links to news stories or info?
 
Good link, TGT, an organization called TREC! Those guys are way ahead of me.

I just looked around the Web a little in the course of coming up with this, in the hopes that others were thinking about this and I wasn't way off base with this idea. I do remember reading about a new type of solar panels developed in New Zealand that can be sold for a dollar a watt. But I still have the feeling CSP beats that.

Here's one article about what's going on in Algeria:

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2007/08/11/after_oil_and_gas_sahara_sunshine/?page=full

Here's one about the Tesla sports car:

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11543/2008-tesla-roadster.html

I also read recently that Toyota was doing a survey on interest in all-electric cars with plug-in to the home, which is usually thought of in conjuction with wind power, since the home can sometimes draw power from a car during peak hours then charge the car during the hours when demand is lower, to help even out the load.

Here's one about CSP (concentrated solar power), which shouldn't require much explanation:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/energy/nn/nn_rt/nn_rt_cs/article_1114_en.htm
 
creating a wourld wide power grid sounds a little absurd if you aske me.

If there is some household sewage, algaculture can be developed to harvest bio-diesel.


Concerning Algaculture;
From 1978 to 1996, the U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory experimented with using algae as a biodiesel source in the "Aquatic Species Program".A self-published article by Michael Briggs, at the UNH Biodiesel Group, offers estimates for the realistic replacement of all vehicular fuel with biodiesel by utilizing algae that have a natural oil content greater than 50%, which Briggs suggests can be grown on algae ponds at wastewater treatment plants. This oil-rich algae can then be extracted from the system and processed into biodiesel, with the dried remainder further reprocessed to create ethanol.

Here is a chart showing the top 5 in term of yeild
Crop kg oil/ha litres oil/ha lbs oil/acre US gal/acre
Algae (theoretical yield)** 39,916 47,500 35,613 5,000
Algae (actual yield)* 6,894 7,660 6,151 819
Chinese tallow 5,500 6,545 4,912 699
oil palm 5,000 5,950 4,465 635
coconut 2,260 2,689 2,018 287
avocado 2,217 2,638 1,980 282

* Actual biomass algae yields from field trials conducted during the NREL's aquatic species program, converted using the actual oil content of the algae species grown in the specific trials.
** Algae yields are projected based on the sustainable average biomass yields of the NREL's aquatic species program, and an assumed oil content of 60%.
 
It would be a great step for Africa if solar power stations were built in the Sahara for the sole purpose of powering the African continent, it would likely bring all the 3rd world countries closer to being 1st world, it would weaken their need for oil and increase export opportunity, Africa could create a new African Union and become similar to Europe with free trade agreements. If the Dem.Rep.of the Congo could become stable because of it then this super resource rich nation could become the epicentre of the African Union spreading its wealth an prosperity throughout the Continent.

We can but dream. ;)
 
What happens if you put a mini-windmill on top of an electric car?

Thermodynamics states that it would be impossible for such a system to generate as much energy as it uses, but perhaps it could help slow the power drain?
 
LindleToe said:
What happens if you put a mini-windmill on top of an electric car?

Thermodynamics states that it would be impossible for such a system to generate as much energy as it uses, but perhaps it could help slow the power drain?
All the forward energy is coming from the electricity, though. Unless the car is going downhill, that won't help.

SamuraiBlue said:
creating a wourld wide power grid sounds a little absurd if you ask me.
We already have a common North American power grid. It actually makes a lot of sense - electricity is really easy to transport if you have two wires. (Although crossing the oceans is probably unnecessary).

That said, I don't think that having it all in one place is a great idea. It is sometimes (though not often) cloudy in the Sahara, and it's dark half the time. Even a lot of renewable energy advocates seem to agree that having more then 15% of the power grid from solar and wind would make too un-reliable. Even with electric cars, we won't be able to even out the load perfectly...and it's just a fact of life that people in developed countries expect there to be power available from the outlet when they want it.
 
There is some employment potential in the notion of the people who'd have to be there just to clean the sand off of the collectors. As we've seen with MER, solar collectors and sand/dust don't tend to mix very well.
 
Toresica said:
LindleToe said:
What happens if you put a mini-windmill on top of an electric car?

Thermodynamics states that it would be impossible for such a system to generate as much energy as it uses, but perhaps it could help slow the power drain?
All the forward energy is coming from the electricity, though. Unless the car is going downhill, that won't help.

It has to help somewhat. Without such a rig, you're simply expending energy. With it, you're expending slightly more energy due to increased wind resistance, but also generating rotational energy.

Seems to me the amount you gain would probably outweigh the amount needed to overcome the slight increase in wind resistence.

Naturally the car's battery is still going to run down, it just might do so more slowly.
 
LindleToe said:
Toresica said:
LindleToe said:
What happens if you put a mini-windmill on top of an electric car?

Thermodynamics states that it would be impossible for such a system to generate as much energy as it uses, but perhaps it could help slow the power drain?
All the forward energy is coming from the electricity, though. Unless the car is going downhill, that won't help.

It has to help somewhat. Without such a rig, you're simply expending energy. With it, you're expending slightly more energy due to increased wind resistance, but also generating rotational energy.

Seems to me the amount you gain would probably outweigh the amount needed to overcome the slight increase in wind resistence.

Naturally the car's battery is still going to run down, it just might do so more slowly.
It's counterintuitive, but it doesn't work that way.

Have you seen one of those science-fair-type demonstrations where somebody puts a fan on top of a wheeled platform, and it doesn't go anywhere? This works like that.
 
If you had an electric car and then you put a BIG dynamo on the second axle surely the electricity made by the 2nd axle spinning the dynamo AS the car moved along would power the first axle motor and charge the battery as well.

WELL?
 
You can't get more energy out of a system than you put in. That much is not in question.

However, these sorts of schemes might possibly allow external factors (gravity, wind) to mitigate power loss as much as possible.
 
Uptightgirl said:
If you had an electric car and then you put a BIG dynamo on the second axle surely the electricity made by the 2nd axle spinning the dynamo AS the car moved along would power the first axle motor and charge the battery as well.

WELL?

That would be a big FAIL.
You cannot move a dynamo for free. And friction of all components lowers efficency with every revolution.
...people have tried to base perpetual-motion machines on this principle for hundreds of years.

And as for putting a massive solar-cell farm in the Sahara, how long do you think it'll last when even the smallest breeze starts sand-blasting the solar cells??????

Another collossal FAILURE.....

:D :D :D
 
JustAFriend said:
Uptightgirl said:
If you had an electric car and then you put a BIG dynamo on the second axle surely the electricity made by the 2nd axle spinning the dynamo AS the car moved along would power the first axle motor and charge the battery as well.

WELL?

That would be a big FAIL.
You cannot move a dynamo for free. And friction of all components lowers efficency with every revolution.
...people have tried to base perpetual-motion machines on this principle for hundreds of years.

And as for putting a massive solar-cell farm in the Sahara, how long do you think it'll last when even the smallest breeze starts sand-blasting the solar cells??????

Another collossal FAILURE.....

:D :D :D

In all-electric and hybrid cars, what they use is regenerative braking. Slowing the car charges the battery, not enough to run the car very much, but there is quite a bit of gain in city driving.

Not solar panels in the Sahara, CSP. Didn't I make that clear enough? It's being done, and the same kind of system is already in use in California, Australia, Spain, etc. And more CSP farms are being built. The engineers do kind of know what they're doing, and they you don't install them in areas of shifting dunes in the Sahara.

Ten facts about CSP from a leader in the field:
http://www.solel.com/faq/

Wikipedia's explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_Solar_Power
 
'A new solar start up company has developed the tech to reduce the cost of solar panels by 80%.'
Nanosolar

'Its process is akin to a large printing press, rather than the usual semiconductor manufacturing techniques that deposit thin films on silicon wafers.'

This is a good step in making solar power more affordable to average citizens. Google is a financing partner ...hummm seems to me they made an announcement earlier this year on going green. I'm all for this and am glad the concession for the photo-voltic cells has been broken by the market forces of 'build a better mouse trap'...

...I am not convinced we're on the verge of a global warming calamity but see the need that we must diversify our energy requirements. In this case the sun is our friend...it's always there with free energy to harness. It's up to business to invent something affordable to the public that they can also profit from.

bottom line if it use to cost 10k to equip your house with solar panels ...it will soon cost 2k for the same photo-voltic panels. This is good news for consumers.

If that link doesn't work try this one.

...yep that's ^the link that will get you there without registering.
 
I remember reading about cheap solar panels a month or so ago but couldn't find that link. I think there was a new type of solar panels also developed in New Zealand, as well. If rooftop solar becomes cheap, that's certainly a big help, as well.

There's also something called Power Glass for windows that generates electricity and allows 70% of the light to pass through. It can also be applied to building facades.

http://energypriorities.com/entries/2006/05/xsunx_power_glass_bipv.php
 
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