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So what are you reading now? (Part 3)

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I bated around this forum for a while and talked to a handful of friends at BBS before finally deciding to order and read the Destiny trilogy. It met with a lot of fanfare and generally positive reviews from sources I trust so I figured it would be a good place to start my foray into the realm of Trek Literature. I've never read any science fiction literature before so my mind was open to the possibilities.

I'm midway through the second book and while the story is intriguing and intricate in certain ways, there are three issues I simply cannot parse.

The first is the descriptions entailed in the book. They're repetitive and lengthily to the point I have a hard time imagining what is being described. The city of Axion, for an example, has been described a dozen times using the same language and while I have a general idea of what it looks like, the specifics confuse and muddle the image. Then there's the "reconfiguration" scenes with the aliens who live there- that's been defined pretty clearly and I have a good mental image of what it looks like... but the author describes it in detail every time it happens. It makes me want to skip ahead frankly.

The second issue is the dialogue of known Trek characters. In certain instances it is pretty good (Elim Garak), in certain instances it is acceptable (Ezri Dax, Beverly, Erika, Geordi) but in most instances its too far off the mark for me to be able to hear the voices I associate with any given character saying the words. Picard, Riker, Worf, Seven of Nine, and Troi all have dialogue that is, for me, too far off the mark. And it isn't only what they say but how they say it in the situations that they do. (There's a scene between Admiral Jellico and Seven of Nine that was so over the top I laughed out loud at the thought of it. It boiled Seven down to 'fresh from the Collective' seven and made Jellico, by virtue of his reaction, something he was never shown to be.) I realize how difficult it must be for one writer to take on the job of doing what several writers had in the past (meaning no one person wrote for any of the aforementioned- it was always a bunch of people) but... the tone just isn't there for most of them.

Finally, there's the issue of "WTF" moments. I can't go into detail without spoiling it for anyone who hasn't read the books yet but... there have been moments of what I found to be pure implausibility played off as likely to the point of being inevitable. I haven't gotten to the end of the trilogy yet (I'm midway through it now) but there have already been a bunch that just had me leaning back in my chair to ponder the sheer inexplicable events that happened and the response they garnered from the characters.


So, yeah, so far I haven't been over the moon as it were with anything but the general plot which is pretty interesting (I guess... the villains don't do much for me but I really appreciate they've been given back their teeth.)



-Withers-​
 
I do own Northern Lights, The Amber Spyglass and The Subtle Knife but haven't read them yet, I may read them after I've finished the Rebus Novels or just stay in Scotland and read Trainspotting, I'm just not sure though.

Haven't read all the Rebus novels yet, but I have to say, with Pullman, Rankin, and Welsh, that's some damn good reading. On the Scottish angle... after Rebus, if you haven't read Denise Mina's Paddy Meehan books yet, they're great. And if you like Trainspotting, and Welsh's prose style, you could do worse than to try James Kelman if you haven't already.

As for me, I'm reading an anthology called Please: Fiction Inspired by the Smiths (UK title Paint a Vulgar Picture: Fiction Inspired by the Smiths), edited by Peter Wild. I saw the Smiths on the Queen is Dead tour in 1986 and it's still one of the best shows I've ever been to, and Morrissey is one of the most entertaining lyricists of his generation, so this has potential. "There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more..."
 
I bated around this forum for a while and talked to a handful of friends at BBS before finally deciding to order and read the Destiny trilogy. It met with a lot of fanfare and generally positive reviews from sources I trust so I figured it would be a good place to start my foray into the realm of Trek Literature. I've never read any science fiction literature before so my mind was open to the possibilities.

I'm midway through the second book and while the story is intriguing and intricate in certain ways, there are three issues I simply cannot parse.

The first is the descriptions entailed in the book. They're repetitive and lengthily to the point I have a hard time imagining what is being described. The city of Axion, for an example, has been described a dozen times using the same language and while I have a general idea of what it looks like, the specifics confuse and muddle the image. Then there's the "reconfiguration" scenes with the aliens who live there- that's been defined pretty clearly and I have a good mental image of what it looks like... but the author describes it in detail every time it happens. It makes me want to skip ahead frankly.

The second issue is the dialogue of known Trek characters. In certain instances it is pretty good (Elim Garak), in certain instances it is acceptable (Ezri Dax, Beverly, Erika, Geordi) but in most instances its too far off the mark for me to be able to hear the voices I associate with any given character saying the words. Picard, Riker, Worf, Seven of Nine, and Troi all have dialogue that is, for me, too far off the mark. And it isn't only what they say but how they say it in the situations that they do. (There's a scene between Admiral Jellico and Seven of Nine that was so over the top I laughed out loud at the thought of it. It boiled Seven down to 'fresh from the Collective' seven and made Jellico, by virtue of his reaction, something he was never shown to be.) I realize how difficult it must be for one writer to take on the job of doing what several writers had in the past (meaning no one person wrote for any of the aforementioned- it was always a bunch of people) but... the tone just isn't there for most of them.

Finally, there's the issue of "WTF" moments. I can't go into detail without spoiling it for anyone who hasn't read the books yet but... there have been moments of what I found to be pure implausibility played off as likely to the point of being inevitable. I haven't gotten to the end of the trilogy yet (I'm midway through it now) but there have already been a bunch that just had me leaning back in my chair to ponder the sheer inexplicable events that happened and the response they garnered from the characters.


So, yeah, so far I haven't been over the moon as it were with anything but the general plot which is pretty interesting (I guess... the villains don't do much for me but I really appreciate they've been given back their teeth.)



-Withers-​
Withers, if you have never read science fiction literature before, why did you choose to start with the Destiny trilogy? And did you ever watch the Borg episodes of TNG, VOY and ENT? DO you know who they are? It almost sounds like you are a newcomer to Trek, though you have enough knowledge to counter that assumption.
 
I'm not sure exactly what conversation you're referring to in Destiny because I haven't read it yet, but Jellico and Seven absolutely cannot stand each other. He doesn't trust her at all and she recognizes he is a giant asshole, like he was in Chain of Command.
 
^I don't think the Jellico in "Chain of Command" was the same as the image of Jellico that people seem to hold. I saw him as someone who was basically a decent guy, who'd probably be charming as a friend or as a grandfather, but who wasn't as good a leader as Picard, not as receptive to input from his crew and not as patient with their individuality. And to be fair, they were going into a crisis situation, so he didn't really have time to ease them into a new way of doing things. I really think Jellico gets a bum rap.
 
I haven't seen Chain of Command in a while, but I do remember hating his guts. Ronny Cox is just a fantastic actor, and he plays that role so well. I even managed to loathe Kinsey of SG1 far more than I ever hated Jellico.

I saw Cox on an episode of Cold Case the other day, and he played a quiet, old man. Great range as an actor.
 
I haven't seen Chain of Command in a while, but I do remember hating his guts. Ronny Cox is just a fantastic actor, and he plays that role so well.

That's just it. Jellico as written was kind of a jerk, but I felt Cox did much to soften him and play him sympathetically.

I saw Cox on an episode of Cold Case the other day, and he played a quiet, old man. Great range as an actor.

What's little-remembered today is that before RoboCop, Cox was usually typecast as a nice guy. But ever since that movie, he's been typecast as mean, overbearing authority figures.
 
I agree; I think Cox's portrayal was remarkably sympathetic. It made me kind of annoyed that part 2 of that episode didn't resolve his stay with the crew a little more kindly; I think Cox's acting pushed the character in a really different direction.
 
Just finished the second volume of DS9:Avatar. I really enjoyed this, a good continuation of one of my favorite series. And it adds Ro Laren, one of my favorite characters from TNG.

Now reading The Pandora Principle.
 
I've collected all the A Time To... books and will start them when I've finished rereading Hitchhiker's Guide for the 4th or 5th time. I want to get my hands on the Destiny trilogy as so many of you have praised it.
 
I'm reading Sin City: That Yellow Bastard...and Obsidian Alliance.

I couldn't finish Uhura's Story. It was moving a bit slow; interestingly, I didn't find it a bad book. I...just...moved...too...slow.

It did remind of a lovable cat I used to know; I named him 'Kat'...;)
 
Just finished Cathedral. I think it's the worst of the DS9-R books so far; most of it was fine, but I thought Bashir turning stupid was one of the worst-handled stories I've ever read in Trek. As a math teacher, I see a wide range of abilities attempt to understand some very tricky concepts, and there isn't a one of them that behaves anything like that. The ridiculous memory cathedral metaphor and the journal entries that were all over the place in tone didn't accomplish anything that a more simple series of scenes where he finds it steadily more difficult to solve things wouldn't have. I loved Shakaar's death at the end though; very shocking and cool.

Next is SCE: Balance of Nature, then the expanded Sorrows of Empire.
 
"Pillars of Earth" by Ken Follett. I'm not that familiar with the time period (1100's) but it's been a fascinating read. :)
 
Ok, just finished Balance Of Nature. What cool world-building! That was GREAT!

Deranged Nasat - I think I finally understand why you'd find them interesting enough to name yourself after them. Outstanding story.
 
I've been really curious to hear about this one ever since I started reading about Blue, so I'm really glad to hear someone liked it.
 
^ I've tried to read that book 3 times, and failed to get into it every time. All my friends like it, my whole family likes it, it seems like the kind of thing I should love, but I just can't make myself like it. This is also true of anything by Asimov or Heinlein.

just curious what heinlein was it?
his stuff really depends on which period.
some of it i love and some if just gag.

finished vinge's rainbow end, country of the blind by flynn( very disappointing though i have to remember it is a far earlier book then eifeiheim) connie willis black out and naomi novik's her majesty's dragon.
now reading julian comstock by robert charles wilson and vanguard: open secrets.
 
Last night I started The Unspoken Truth, and got as far as page 70 before the annoying need to sleep forced me to put it down. I'm enjoying it so far, and can't wait to get back to it at bedtime tonight.
 
Just finished Cathedral. I think it's the worst of the DS9-R books so far;
Cathedral is probably my favorite book in the post-finale Deep Space Nine novels. :)

The ridiculous memory cathedral metaphor...
It's not ridiculous; some people have memories that work that way. (I do, for one. Or Sherlock Holmes describes his memory in similar terms in A Study in Scarlet.) It's called Method of Loci.

Another book that explores the concept is Jack Dann's The Memory Cathedral, which is about an unchronicled chapter in the life of Leonardo da Vinci, and is a book I recommend wholeheartedly.
 
^ Oh, I know it's a mnemonic trick that many people have used, but I didn't believe the implications they derived. Is the self-imposed metaphor so strong, in those cases, that from accidental mental damage they would see people closing off sections of the cathedral and it collapsing? That just struck me as wildly ridiculous extrapolation from actual circumstances. Like when Voyager cut a hole through an event horizon.

But more damning was that I just didn't believe either the progression of his abilities or his emotions. It swung wildly and randomly between him becoming mostly just a normal average guy and some bottom-of-the-barrel retard.
 
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