She’s obviously not doing this out of compassion or some heartfelt love for the Federation. She has an agenda and a game plan. The question is, what is it?
So what’s the Emperor’s play here?
- Thread starter Captain Killy
- Start date
She considers herself dead. Remember she wanted to go back to MU even it meant she would be immediately killed. So right now she doesn't have any agenda other than probably stay out of the brig. She wasn't too happy with idea that Federation would keep her locked up, so when they offered her a ship, she's like... "oh ok, sure I'll do that."
It's really hard to say. it was an unexpected direction to say the least. It's probably that Georgeau has absolutely nothing to lose, but understands that if she is caught in the PU, and the Federation loses the war to the Klingons, she's as dead as the rest of them.
So...for now...why not help? If she can extend her life, she might be able to find a way back to the MU and re-take the throne.
It's really her only play.
So...for now...why not help? If she can extend her life, she might be able to find a way back to the MU and re-take the throne.
It's really her only play.
Well, I have to admit I'm completely in the dark about this. We might not even know whether she has a long-term goal beyond a realization that if the Klingons get to her, she's just as dead as everyone else.
I'm flirting with the idea that she's proposing the most horrific strategy possible just to hurt Burnham... show her not only that might does make right, but also how easily Starfleet Command and the Federation Council agreed to something possibly ending in planetary-level devastation or even complete extinction, just because they were desperate to survive - a twisted version of Quark's 'cornered hew-mons' speech with a bit of a practical demonstration, perhaps. It might even be that she wants to teach this entire abhorrent bunch of soft, compassionate pushovers a lesson... actually maybe this would be stretching it. It's so petty it would feel more like Sauron (namely when he allowed himself be captured by the Númenoreans so that he could corrupt them) than a mortal dictator.
But yeah, basically, the main questions about her goals are whether she has any other than her own survival and how petty she actually is.
I'm flirting with the idea that she's proposing the most horrific strategy possible just to hurt Burnham... show her not only that might does make right, but also how easily Starfleet Command and the Federation Council agreed to something possibly ending in planetary-level devastation or even complete extinction, just because they were desperate to survive - a twisted version of Quark's 'cornered hew-mons' speech with a bit of a practical demonstration, perhaps. It might even be that she wants to teach this entire abhorrent bunch of soft, compassionate pushovers a lesson... actually maybe this would be stretching it. It's so petty it would feel more like Sauron (namely when he allowed himself be captured by the Númenoreans so that he could corrupt them) than a mortal dictator.
But yeah, basically, the main questions about her goals are whether she has any other than her own survival and how petty she actually is.
She's a warrior/conquer
PU or MU Klingons need to be defeated, she'll gain her freeedom. Maybe she thinks she can twist the Federation a bit along the way
Can't wait to see how twisted her plan is
PU or MU Klingons need to be defeated, she'll gain her freeedom. Maybe she thinks she can twist the Federation a bit along the way
Can't wait to see how twisted her plan is
Another chance to go out in a blaze of glory like she intended to in the Mirror Universe. Why would she want to die a prisoner?
Or she misses taking it to the Klingons.
I would've said she wants to infiltrate Starfleet by doing something like trying to force Cornwell to promote her to Admiral but she doesn't seem like the type who wants to conquer from within. She'd rather conquer from without. So that takes me back to... she wants to go out in a blaze of glory.
She'll be in full Take No Prisoners Mode and that's what's going to cause problems for Burnham, Saru, and Cornwell. Either the Klingons will have to kill her or they will.
Or she misses taking it to the Klingons.
I would've said she wants to infiltrate Starfleet by doing something like trying to force Cornwell to promote her to Admiral but she doesn't seem like the type who wants to conquer from within. She'd rather conquer from without. So that takes me back to... she wants to go out in a blaze of glory.
She'll be in full Take No Prisoners Mode and that's what's going to cause problems for Burnham, Saru, and Cornwell. Either the Klingons will have to kill her or they will.
Last edited:
To Play The King.
Headfuck.
Headfuck.
Maybe with the entirety of Qo'noS serving as her very own funeral pyre?
From the posts so far, it's clear that impressions are all over the map... which is no surprise, given that what we were presented with in the episode seemed like a largely unmotivated "twist."
My own take? She's been given an unexpected second chance at survival, and is now surrounded by people who she considers fools and weaklings for whom she has no respect. She's offering them exactly what they want to hear ("A plan! To defeat the Klingons!") despite her complete lack of familiarity with Prime Universe Klingons, and using it as a bargaining chip to grab as much power as she can get away with. While she's in that position she'll probably play for time a bit to get a better sense of the social context she's landed in, but otherwise do everything she can to turn her new "allies" against one another, and betray or kill anyone who challenges her. She may not have all her moves precisely figured out in advance, but she's analyzing the chessboard and prepared to seize opportunities as they arise.
My own take? She's been given an unexpected second chance at survival, and is now surrounded by people who she considers fools and weaklings for whom she has no respect. She's offering them exactly what they want to hear ("A plan! To defeat the Klingons!") despite her complete lack of familiarity with Prime Universe Klingons, and using it as a bargaining chip to grab as much power as she can get away with. While she's in that position she'll probably play for time a bit to get a better sense of the social context she's landed in, but otherwise do everything she can to turn her new "allies" against one another, and betray or kill anyone who challenges her. She may not have all her moves precisely figured out in advance, but she's analyzing the chessboard and prepared to seize opportunities as they arise.
She's going to end up being defeated by a lightbulb though.
Use DSC to try to blow up Qo'NoS?
Her play? Take over the ship, win the universe.
She wants to demonstrate power and brutality to her "daughter who is not her daughter". Whether she forces Burnham to mutuny or shows her how superiority Terran Tactics are, her goals would be accomplished.
She is a terran supremacist, so showing a new universe humanity's strength is within "good deed" for her worldview. If she can rise in Starfleet, she can cause it to be more human centric, moving it closer to a new empire.
She wants to see how this Vulcan/human alliance at the core of the federation works, to possibly give citizenship to the Vulcans when she returns in power to reclaim the throne.
She has nothing else to do, as her life is over.
She is a terran supremacist, so showing a new universe humanity's strength is within "good deed" for her worldview. If she can rise in Starfleet, she can cause it to be more human centric, moving it closer to a new empire.
She wants to see how this Vulcan/human alliance at the core of the federation works, to possibly give citizenship to the Vulcans when she returns in power to reclaim the throne.
She has nothing else to do, as her life is over.
She's going to do what she says she's going to do but get all Machiavellian and "the ends justify the means" type of malarkey.
She'll be a weird hybrid of Sisko-chasing-Eddington type single mindedness, Section 31 style ruthlessness and Captain Jellico biting off the heads of her underlings (literally in the case of Saru) and seasoned with a lashing of Kahn-Montalban-esque charm.
She'll be a weird hybrid of Sisko-chasing-Eddington type single mindedness, Section 31 style ruthlessness and Captain Jellico biting off the heads of her underlings (literally in the case of Saru) and seasoned with a lashing of Kahn-Montalban-esque charm.
We have to keep separate the Emperor's plans and the fact that she's in command of the ship now. The former is inside her head and is going to stay there, regardless of any seeming revelations and confessions she is observed making. The latter is what Admiral Cornwell considers a good idea.
I can't wait to see whether the anti-Klingon plan the Emperor proposed actually requires her to be placed in command of the ship; whether it does not but for her own reasons she asked for it, claiming it does, and the Admiral fell for it; or whether her being in command makes no sense in the end.
I'm sort of counting on #2 as it offers the greatest potential for exciting plot twists. But #1 is simpler and perhaps more realistic, as this scheming character hasn't had time to get her bearings and might rather be proceeding one step at the time. Given all the preplanning in the writing, I doubt #3 was intended, but that may not be enough of an insurance against it happening...
Timo Saloniemi
I can't wait to see whether the anti-Klingon plan the Emperor proposed actually requires her to be placed in command of the ship; whether it does not but for her own reasons she asked for it, claiming it does, and the Admiral fell for it; or whether her being in command makes no sense in the end.
I'm sort of counting on #2 as it offers the greatest potential for exciting plot twists. But #1 is simpler and perhaps more realistic, as this scheming character hasn't had time to get her bearings and might rather be proceeding one step at the time. Given all the preplanning in the writing, I doubt #3 was intended, but that may not be enough of an insurance against it happening...
Timo Saloniemi
Hopefully she with reboot the Burnhamverse and give us the prime universe that we are supposed to be in...
Remember. The emperor knows the "broad sweep" of PU recorded history in the next ten year or so from the pre-redacted Defiant logs (i.e. until the PU Defiant gets into trouble and goes into the MU). This is getting into one of those loops where she thinks she knows her fate and thinks she holds all the cards - and intends to do a double cross at some point as history indicates this (or more likely simply doesn't record the fate of the re-installed Capt Georgiou).
In fact, it'll be sorted out by the conspiracy to keep all MU knowledge classified in the PU by Starfleet. The emperor DOES NOT KNOW the "real" history (i.e. what we are going to see in the coming finale, together with any other classified events leading up to the Defiant's crossover). Eventually her plans - likely involving destruction of Qo'Nos - will be stymied (likely by Burnham) but she will have had the chance to bring the Klingon fleet to its knees. Recorded history will be her undoing since it won't say "oh by the way the Capt of the Discovery went mad and we had to vapourise her at the end of the war" or anything like that. Now this is somewhere I do "buy" that S31 could be behind the scenes ensuring the recorded history leaves Georgiou's fate unknown. That way the Emperor genuinely believes that co-operation was stupid by Starfleet and she will ultimately use it to escape. Wrong Pippa. You're toast. You and the official history books just don't know that yet.
In fact, it'll be sorted out by the conspiracy to keep all MU knowledge classified in the PU by Starfleet. The emperor DOES NOT KNOW the "real" history (i.e. what we are going to see in the coming finale, together with any other classified events leading up to the Defiant's crossover). Eventually her plans - likely involving destruction of Qo'Nos - will be stymied (likely by Burnham) but she will have had the chance to bring the Klingon fleet to its knees. Recorded history will be her undoing since it won't say "oh by the way the Capt of the Discovery went mad and we had to vapourise her at the end of the war" or anything like that. Now this is somewhere I do "buy" that S31 could be behind the scenes ensuring the recorded history leaves Georgiou's fate unknown. That way the Emperor genuinely believes that co-operation was stupid by Starfleet and she will ultimately use it to escape. Wrong Pippa. You're toast. You and the official history books just don't know that yet.
BTW I don't know whether I like or loathe these self-fulfilling time loops but in this case I'm on board with it - caveat, this is assuming I haven't made a mistake somewhere and the Emperor does indeed know and remember the pre-redacted Defiant log info. The other assumption (not unreasonable) is that someone like Burnham or Saru has told Cornwell that they know a currently operational PU Defiant moves to an earlier time-point in the MU at some point in the near future, and thus that the Emperor therefore knows some of the Federation's recorded near future events. Thus the Admiralty know that for the Emperor to get on board with their subterfuge they must "record" events in official Starfleet logs in such a way that those on board the future Defiant leave any snoopers (i.e. the MU people) non-the-wiser about some key events in the ending of the PU war.
Similar threads
