So, was Cochrane's warp drive concept something special, or wasn't it ?

[RAMA]

It's quite common in education to respect foreigners for what they accomplish.

In the space race, it took many years, but NASA and it's employees/astronauts greatly respect the achievements of the former USSR.

And frankly, whoever heard of people here on Earth respecting foreigners for what they invented first?

Indeed, I rather doubt Emory Erickson really was the first human to operate or own a transporter. He was just the first to cobble together one of his own human making... Perhaps after having spied on Vulcans operaing their older and better gear first.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Spot261]

And frankly, whoever heard of people here on Earth respecting foreigners for what they invented first?

Indeed, I rather doubt Emory Erickson really was the first human to operate or own a transporter. He was just the first to cobble together one of his own human making... Perhaps after having spied on Vulcans operaing their older and better gear first.

Timo Saloniemi

Who's this Oppenheimer chap? Nuclear weapons were invented in London weren't they?

Of course monorails and the cholera vaccine did in fact come from Russia, I'm pretty sure a few other non brits have dabbled with changing the world.

I'm having to roll with the hypothesis you are being sarcastic here Timo...

 

[uniderth]

It was inwented by a little old lady from Leningrad.

 

[Nyotarules]

It was inwented by a little old lady from Leningrad.

Named Anastasia Chekov

 

[Nyotarules]

And frankly, whoever heard of people here on Earth respecting foreigners for what they invented first?

Indeed, I rather doubt Emory Erickson really was the first human to operate or own a transporter. He was just the first to cobble together one of his own human making... Perhaps after having spied on Vulcans operaing their older and better gear first.

Timo Saloniemi

Nah that was a human gig, its the only reason the Vulcans joined the Federation, they wanted to get their hands on our transporter pads. And Andorians wanted to sell us their intoxicating liqour.

 

[Captain Rob]

Named Anastasia Chekov

I thought it was invented by a little, not so old, lady from Lubbock,Texas.
Named Cheryl Lynn Otis.
She kept her days free for science by working nights as a stripper.

 

[Nyotarules]

I thought it was invented by a little, not so old, lady from Lubbock,Texas.
Named Cheryl Lynn Otis.
She kept her days free for science by working nights as a stripper.

Nah its the 22nd century she was a holoporn star

 

[Captain Rob]

There's absolutely no substitute for a woman who's hands-on.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And then came references to sleeper ships remaining in operation, at least two full centuries beyond that date. But those were interstellar sleeper ships - so it would make sense for the 2018 improvement in spatial drives to relate to interplanetary flight exclusively. In which case a FTL breakthrough isn't a likely bet. Also, it takes a historian to inform Jim Kirk of the significance of 2018, so it clearly wasn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things!

Doesn't Kirk shush her a little bit after that? I get a feeling in that scene that McGivers was telling Kirk & co. stuff they already knew, at least in the broad strokes.

It would make sense to me that the 2018 date might mean something along the lines of an early version of an impulse drive? Or the technology that would one-day form the basis of it.

Makes sense to me! Headcanon approved!

The way I always saw it is that he is only the inventor of Warp Drive on earth, but - is known and revered across the Federation - not because he brought Warp Drive - but because the act of inventing it on Earth brought humanity into interstellar space - and that directly led to the establishment of the Federation.

Yeah, I'd say that's certainly been the case ever since First Contact came out.

On reflection, I rather like the notion that while other species had faster-than-light drives (and they must have), Cochrane found and exploited something called a space-warp which changed the whole game somehow.

Yeah, I like that idea, too. Who knows? "Space warp" could be something significantly different from warp drive.

I don't recall much in TOS about how and when Vulcans and Human met. The only line that sticks out is the one about Vulcan being conquored ( implicitly by Earth)

McCoy was mixing up Vulcans with Native Americans.

 

[Longinus]

McCoy was mixing up Vulcans with Native Americans.

"Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a historian!"

 

[tavor]

i think cochrane invented warp drive but someone in a future time stole the tech (kind of like sterling or those ferrengi time travelers ,traveled back in time sold it and all the alien races got it

 

[Captain Rob]

Over a hundred years ago the real break through in automobiles was the internal gasoline powered engine. Before that there were steam power and rudimentary electric power and other things. I think that Cochrane's warp drive system was like that to the other systems currently in use. His was one that allowed warp dirve to truly go wide scale and be improved upon to what we see in TNG, DS9, and Voyager. His system was better, faster and stronger.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

His system was better, faster and stronger.

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it...

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[Captain Rob]

^^ That was exactly what i was thinking about when I typed it.
That was a great show.

 

[Crow T. Robot]

Over a hundred years ago the real break through in automobiles was the internal gasoline powered engine. Before that there were steam power and rudimentary electric power and other things. I think that Cochrane's warp drive system was like that to the other systems currently in use. His was one that allowed warp dirve to truly go wide scale and be improved upon to what we see in TNG, DS9, and Voyager. His system was better, faster and stronger.

Well, except we know even older species had far superior capabilities. Trumping everything we've seen in both TOS and TNG, in fact. And thanks to ENT, we know that Cochrane's drive wasn't anything particularly impressive in and of itself; improvements in speed came from the innovations of people long after his... well, I guess we have to call it "disappearance."

So even in the grand scheme of the Alpha Quadrant as a whole, it was nothing special, nor was it anything special amongst the spacefaring species at the time that he developed it.

 

[uniderth]

So even in the grand scheme of the Alpha Quadrant as a whole, it was nothing special, nor was it anything special amongst the spacefaring species at the time that he developed it.

But was it? Is there any direct evidence that FTL travel was common among space-faring civilizations in the Alpha and Beta quadrants in 1950s-2100s? Even "First Contact" doesn't say the Vulcanians had warp drive at this time.

 

[Longinus]

But was it? Is there any direct evidence that FTL travel was common among space-faring civilizations in the Alpha and Beta quadrants in 1950s-2100s? Even "First Contact" doesn't say the Vulcanians had warp drive at this time.

Yes, it was. You're just ignoring the evidence. Also, no one calls them 'Vulcanians'.

 

[uniderth]

Yes, it was. You're just ignoring the evidence.

Could you then please show me where it explicity says in "First Contact" that Vulcanians had ftl capability, because I can't find it. All I found was this:

COCHRANE: So, what is it you want me to do?
RIKER: Simple. Conduct your warp flight tomorrow morning just as you planned.
COCHRANE: Why tomorrow morning?
RIKER: Because at eleven o'clock an alien ship will begin passing through this solar system.
COCHRANE: Alien? You mean extra-terrestrials. More bad guys?
TROI: Good guys. They're on a survey mission. They have no interest in Earth. ...Too primitive.
COCHRANE: Oh!
RIKER: Doctor, tomorrow morning when they detect the warp signature from your ship and realise that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, right here.
COCHRANE: Here?
LAFORGE: Sir, it's actually over there.
RIKER: It is one of the pivotal moments in human history, Doctor. You get to make first contact with an alien race, and after you do, everything begins to change.
LAFORGE: Your theories on warp drive allow fleets of starships to be built and mankind to start exploring the Galaxy.
TROI: It unites humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realise they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war. They'll all be gone within the next fifty years.

BARCLAY: I never imagined I'd be meeting the man who invented the warp drive.

Captain's log, April 5th 2063. The voyage of the Phoenix was a success, ...again. The alien ship detected the warp signature and is on its way to rendezvous with history.

WORF: The moon's gravitational field obscured our warp signature. The Vulcans did not detect us.

All that is explicitly stated in the film is that they were going through the solar system and they had the ability to detect warp signatures.

I've already shown that a trip from Vulcanis ("whatever" Eridani) is possible at sublight speeds. Additionally, I've given a real world example (gravity waves) that it is possible to detect something you have no ability to create, utilize, or modify.

Also, no one calls them 'Vulcanians'.

Court Martial
KIRK: Timothy, I haven't seen you since the Vulcanian expedition.
COMPUTER: Spock, serial number S179-276SP. [...] Commendations, Vulcanian Scientific Legion of Honour.
SPOCK: Lieutenant, I am half Vulcanian. Vulcanians do not speculate.

Errand of Mercy
KLINGON: He is what he claims to be, Commander, a Vulcanian merchant named Spock.

This Side of Paradise
ELIAS: You've known the Vulcanian?

Mudd's Women
MUDD: You're part Vulcanian, aren't you.

Unimatrix Zero
TUVOK: Stardate 38774. Vulcanis lunar colony.

 

[Longinus]

ST: Enterprise. Vulcans had warp in 1950s.

Term 'Vulcanian' was abandoned after first season of TOS (I don't know what Tuvok was talking about, as Vulcan has no moon, so it's something else.) But of course you are free to keep using it, sounds weird to me, that's all.

 

[uniderth]

ST: Enterprise. Vulcans had warp in 1950s.

I was specifically referring to First Contact, but that's fine. So all evidence to warp drive being common in the Alpha and Beta quadrants during 2063 +/-50 years, comes from Enterprise?

Term 'Vulcanian' was abandoned after first season of TOS (I don't know what Tuvok was talking about, as Vulcan has no moon, so it's something else.) But of course you are free to keep using it, sounds weird to me, that's all.

It sounded weird to me too, that's why I started using it. To be honest it still sounds weird.