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So Justin Lin is a Star Trek fan.....

But can't one be a BOTH a fan and a professional? Christopher & Greg Cox seem to be examples of this.

Obviously, but the point is that it's the professional part that makes the difference in the quality of a work of fiction. Or anything else. Who would you rather have repairing your car -- someone who just really likes cars, or someone who has years of training as a professional mechanic? Certainly a lot of people in the latter category will also be in the former, but of the two, which one would have more impact on the quality of your car repairs?


With something like Star Trek, you have a 50 year history that a professional could have been exposed to previously. At the initial time, it might not have been serious. But it could save you a lot of research time (i.e. instead binge watching ALL episodes of Trek, you can go back to specific episodes & scenes, to make sure you've "got it right"
I've been a Trek fan since I was five years old. But I still do my research about any Trek project. I rewatch the relevant episodes, I check Memory Alpha and other sources as needed -- I do the same things I'd do if I hadn't been previously familiar. Because just being fond of something isn't enough to live up to professional standards. If you're a pro, you treat it like work, not a hobby. It's a whole other type of engagement with the material.


The thing i seem to get out of this discussion is that people are assuming all fans are "nonprofessionals".
Not at all. I'm sure most adult fans are professionals at something, which is why I'm stressing professionalism -- because I assume that's something everyone with their own career can understand and relate to. The point is simply that being a professional has a greater impact on the work than being a fan does, as with the car repair example above.



I think one "problem" that could happen is that despite the homework, if someone's heart isn't in it...in a creative work (more than a school report, or even career), that can really show up. Even if something is technically good, the emotion could be missing.
Maybe, but not inevitably. Remember what Greg said when asked if he was a fan of something -- "No, but I can be." Just because you weren't a fan of something beforehand, you can still learn to be one when you immerse yourself in it as research for a project. As I said, I'm more of a fan of Enterprise now, after revisiting it as preparation for my ENT novels, than I was on the day I was hired to do the first of those novels.

After all, fandom isn't something you're born with. Sure, many of us are nearly lifelong fans of various things, but there are also people who've only just recently discovered a show on a binge-watch and become fans in the past few weeks, but are still just as passionate as those who have been fans for years. For me, it was like that with Leverage. I got curious about it for the first time shortly before its fifth(?)-season premiere, and I binge-watched the first four seasons and was quickly hooked. If anything, immersing yourself in a binge like that can make your appreciation even more intense.

So why in the world would you assume that a professional learning about a project for the first time can't become a genuine fan in the process? That just makes no sense.


Why it's heartening to me when I hear a hired professional says he's a fan, it gives me the impression that they actually love what they are going to work on.
I don't think you can do this job without loving it. Even if a filmmaker doesn't have a pre-existing love for the specific series, they can still love the process of moviemaking, of making stories work and characters sing. So they'll try to make the best movie they can regardless.
 
I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.
 
I think one "problem" that could happen is that despite the homework, if someone's heart isn't in it...in a creative work (more than a school report, or even career), that can really show up. Even if something is technically good, the emotion could be missing.

Why it's heartening to me when I hear a hired professional says he's a fan, it gives me the impression that they actually love what they are going to work on.

And my experience has been fans who are the professionals working on the project will throw in things that might go over the general public's head (though not distract them), but for other fans , will get them excited & geeked out, and more enthusiastic about telling others to watch it.

At the risk of bragging, the "SPACE VIXENS" book in question seems to have gotten a positive response from fans of the show, whom, at least judging from the amazon reviews, seem to think that I got it right as far as capturing the characters and feel of the series. Despite me having never watched the show before I landed the gig.

And as for obscure references meant only for hardcore fans ... well, one of the frequent criticisms of my TREK books is that I tend to go overboard with the fannish nods to old episodes. (Guilty as charged.) So I guess, in that case, being a lifelong fan can be a double-edged sword! :)
 
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I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.

Nonsense. Fandom is not something defined by exclusionism and gatekeeping, no matter how much some people try to make it that. Fandom is a personal thing. It's about an individual's own enjoyment of whatever they choose to enjoy. Nobody has the right to judge anyone else's fandom or dismiss it as "not true" just because it's different from their own.

Star Trek teaches us to respect diversity, after all. So shouldn't a "true Trek fan" understand that differences in the way people do things are something to be accepted and welcomed rather than used as an excuse for building barriers? The terrific thing about ST is that it's large and diverse enough to offer different things for a wide variety of different tastes. It's every bit as valid to be a fan of just one or two series as it is to be a fan of all of them.
 
I think one "problem" that could happen is that despite the homework, if someone's heart isn't in it...in a creative work (more than a school report, or even career), that can really show up. Even if something is technically good, the emotion could be missing.
Maybe, but not inevitably. Remember what Greg said when asked if he was a fan of something -- "No, but I can be." Just because you weren't a fan of something beforehand, you can still learn to be one when you immerse yourself in it as research for a project. As I said, I'm more of a fan of Enterprise now, after revisiting it as preparation for my ENT novels, than I was on the day I was hired to do the first of those novels.

After all, fandom isn't something you're born with. Sure, many of us are nearly lifelong fans of various things, but there are also people who've only just recently discovered a show on a binge-watch and become fans in the past few weeks, but are still just as passionate as those who have been fans for years. For me, it was like that with Leverage. I got curious about it for the first time shortly before its fifth(?)-season premiere, and I binge-watched the first four seasons and was quickly hooked. If anything, immersing yourself in a binge like that can make your appreciation even more intense.

So why in the world would you assume that a professional learning about a project for the first time can't become a genuine fan in the process? That just makes no sense.


Why it's heartening to me when I hear a hired professional says he's a fan, it gives me the impression that they actually love what they are going to work on.
I don't think you can do this job without loving it. Even if a filmmaker doesn't have a pre-existing love for the specific series, they can still love the process of moviemaking, of making stories work and characters sing. So they'll try to make the best movie they can regardless.


And, honestly, there often a bit of a Stockholm Syndrome thing going on. Trust me, you write 90,000 words about a character or universe, eat and breath and sleep a series for weeks at a time, you become a fan of it . . .

I haven't written an UNDERWORLD novel in years now, but I'm still curious to see what happens to Selene in the next movie. And, of course, I had never heard of UNDERWORLD before I novelized the first movie--because it was a brand new property that hadn't even debuted yet.

And that's the thing: You can't assume that writers put more effort and "heart" into their long-time favorites than they do with some new or unfamiliar property. Trust me, I put just as much work into my LEVERAGE or WAREHOUSE 13 novels as I do on my STAR TREK books, even though I obviously didn't grow up on WAREHOUSE 13 or LEVERAGE or CSI or ROSWELL or whatever . ...

To do otherwise would be, yes, unprofessional.
 
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I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.

No. Just...no. Being a fan is entirely self-defined. No one other than one's self gets to decide if one is a fan of something. A fan is under ZERO obligation to justify himself or herself as to his or her "qualifications" for being a fan.
 
It sounds to me like the kind of PR that a movie studio would put out there to reassure the fanbase.

That isn't to say it's not true, though. But yeah, it's a kind of 'friendly soundbite', shall we say, that is quite often heard in relation to movie projects based on older properties.
 
I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.

At the risk of piling on, that's not a very practical or helpful definition in the real world. And not one likely to attract new fans.

Look at it this way: You're at a party or family reunion or whatever and somebody says. "You like STAR TREK? Me, too. I always liked STAR TREK. Beam me up, Scotty!"

So, do you then quiz the other person in order to determine whether they are a "true fan" or not? Or, worse yet, do you patiently explain to the other person that they do not really qualify as a STAR TREK fan unless they have seen Enterprise or whatever?

Of course not. That's not an attitude that is going to endear or attract anyone to STAR TREK. If anything, it makes TREK sound cliquish and unwelcoming.

There are no membership requirements here, and nobody is obliged to "prove" that they are a "true fan" to anyone else's satisfaction.
 
I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.

Nonsense. Fandom is not something defined by exclusionism and gatekeeping, no matter how much some people try to make it that. Fandom is a personal thing. It's about an individual's own enjoyment of whatever they choose to enjoy. Nobody has the right to judge anyone else's fandom or dismiss it as "not true" just because it's different from their own.

Star Trek teaches us to respect diversity, after all. So shouldn't a "true Trek fan" understand that differences in the way people do things are something to be accepted and welcomed rather than used as an excuse for building barriers? The terrific thing about ST is that it's large and diverse enough to offer different things for a wide variety of different tastes. It's every bit as valid to be a fan of just one or two series as it is to be a fan of all of them.

I think to be a true fan of star trek, you must make an honest attempt to atleast sit through one episode and each movie, of each series.

Being a fan of TOS and never watching Enterprise to me makes someone not a "star trek" fan.

At the risk of piling on, that's not a very practical or helpful definition in the real world. And not one likely to attract new fans.

Look at it this way: You're at a party or family reunion or whatever and somebody says. "You like STAR TREK? Me, too. I always liked STAR TREK. Beam me up, Scotty!"

So, do you then quiz the other person in order to determine whether they are a "true fan" or not? Or, worse yet, do you patiently explain to the other person that they do not really qualify as a STAR TREK fan unless they have seen Enterprise or whatever?

Of course not. That's not an attitude that is going to endear or attract anyone to STAR TREK. If anything, it makes TREK sound cliquish and unwelcoming.

There are no membership requirements here, and nobody is obliged to "prove" that they are a "true fan" to anyone else's satisfaction.

:beer:

Thank you, both, for putting quite succinctly. I heartedly agree.
 
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Who would you rather have repairing your car -- someone who just really likes cars, or someone who has years of training as a professional mechanic?

Oh, I haven't seen anybody say that they would prefer upcoming Star Trek films to be directed by Star Trek fans for whom filmmaking is just a hobby. Everybody understands that only professional directors should be hired to direct. The issue is simply that some here want an additional qualification of being a fan on top of that, apparently in order to comfort them that the franchise is, in their view, in good hands.

Greg Cox has articulately put that issue to rest as a non-issue, as if the actual history of Star Trek in film hadn't effectively done so already.

And that's the thing: You can't assume that writers put more effort and "heart" into their long-time favorites than they do with some new or unfamiliar property. Trust me, I put just as much work into my LEVERAGE or WAREHOUSE 13 novels as I do on my STAR TREK books, even though I obviously didn't grow up on WAREHOUSE 13 or LEVERAGE or CSI or ROSWELL or whatever . ...

To do otherwise would be, yes, unprofessional.
 
:lol:"Extras must demonstrate a working knowledge of the Star Trek universe." :p

Damn straight! What if that guy walking around in the background in the Starfleet Headquarters scene didn't know what the Organian Peace Treaty was? Or hadn't seen every episode of the Animated Series?

The whole movie could be compromised! :)
 
:lol:"Extras must demonstrate a working knowledge of the Star Trek universe." :p

Damn straight! What if that guy walking around in the background in the Starfleet Headquarters scene didn't know what the Organian Peace Treaty was? Or hadn't seen every episode of the Animated Series?

The whole movie could be compromised! :)

:lol:

Believe you me... we have ways of knowing. True Fans™ give off a noticeable aura. One of the reasons that JJ Abrams had all those lens flares was to distract people from the fact that so few of his background characters had the True Fan Aura™.
 
:lol:"Extras must demonstrate a working knowledge of the Star Trek universe." :p

Damn straight! What if that guy walking around in the background in the Starfleet Headquarters scene didn't know what the Organian Peace Treaty was? Or hadn't seen every episode of the Animated Series?

The whole movie could be compromised! :)

Well this is what I'm saying! Plus, at least a rudimentary knowledge of console settings. What if the "Extra" was asked to "go to Navigation and touch the "Current Position" icon", and he or she accidentally sets a course for...oh...wait...yeah, not real, not real.
But still, you get my point!

But I absolutely agree with a Minimum Standard of seeing each episode of TAS. :techman:
 
:lol:"Extras must demonstrate a working knowledge of the Star Trek universe." :p

Damn straight! What if that guy walking around in the background in the Starfleet Headquarters scene didn't know what the Organian Peace Treaty was? Or hadn't seen every episode of the Animated Series?

The whole movie could be compromised! :)

:lol:

Believe you me... we have ways of knowing. True Fans™ give off a noticeable aura. One of the reasons that JJ Abrams had all those lens flares was to distract people from the fact that so few of his background characters had the True Fan Aura™.

It all makes sense now!
 
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