So if the comics & video game are canon...

[PPatters]

Anyway, we've never before seen the 2230s depicted onscreen, so why couldn't they have used different conventions in that generation than in later ones?

Especially since a leading 0 had been used in Enterprise (recall, it was the NX-01, not the NX-1). I understand that Enterprise was the first time we saw such low numbers, but the fact remains: they, too, could have chosen not to use a leading number. Though there was no convention saying one way or another, perhaps making the Kelvin have a leading 0 was an intentional homage (unlikely, but perhaps) to the concept of leading 0s seen during the 22nd Century.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Oh god, it's 2008 all over again

 

[Christopher]

Though there was no convention saying one way or another, perhaps making the Kelvin have a leading 0 was an intentional homage (unlikely, but perhaps) to the concept of leading 0s seen during the 22nd Century.

Or maybe they just thought a 4-digit number looked better than a 3-digit one. Matt Jefferies chose 1701 simply because of the way it looked onscreen, thinking those numbers would register more clearly with the viewers' eyes than other numbers that might be mistaken for each other (like a 3 being read as an 8 or a 5 as a 6).

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Are there canon levels in trek like in SW?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Are there canon levels in trek like in SW?

No, although it pretty much works out the same in the end - the live action stuff can and does trample anything it wants.

In Trek, the live-action shows and movies are canon. The animated series is a maybe. Then there's all the tie-ins which aren't canon. 90% of the novels form an enourmous and insanely intricate shared continuity. The comics lines do their own things (but occasionally cross over to the novels). Star Trek Online has it's version of events too (which crossed over to the novels in The Needs of the Many as an alternate reality, in a kind of easter eggish way)

 

[Drago-Kazov]

I was just talking about the Abramverse.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In that case, no. Bob Orci retracted his statememt about the comics being canon very quickly.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

I think the next movie makes or breakes that issue, depeneds if they break JJ EU canon with it or not. I certainly want the videogame to be canon. Does the game have a damm website by now?

 

[Christopher]

In Trek, the live-action shows and movies are canon. The animated series is a maybe.

The animated series has been alluded to in various canon productions over the past couple of decades, and tie-ins have been free to reference it for most of that time. I don't think there's any reason at this point to doubt that TAS is effectively part of the canon. The only time it was ever officially treated otherwise was for maybe two years from Roddenberry's 1989 memo to his death in '91. After that, the restriction lingered for a while but by now has eroded away to nothing.

Then there's all the tie-ins which aren't canon. 90% of the novels form an enourmous and insanely intricate shared continuity.

Not that many. Most of the books published since 2000 are in a shared continuity, yes, but there have been exceptions, and lately we're seeing an increasing return to the standalone novels of the past (for instance, one of the TOS novels just announced for 2013 will apparently depict events from around the end of Kirk's 5-year mission in a different way than the main-continuity book Forgotten History did earlier this year).

I certainly want the videogame to be canon.

I'd rather it weren't. The Gorn as an evil race bent on galactic conquest? That's completely inconsistent with how they've been portrayed in the past. Okay, maybe something changed them after the timeline split in 2233; maybe they were taken over by a militant caste, like the coup in the graphic novel The Gorn Crisis but with more success. But the whole thematic point of "Arena" was that it's wrong to judge by appearances -- that just because the Gorn looked like scary alligator-men, that didn't make them evil. It was an allegory about prejudice and fear of the other. So saying "Yeah, the Gorn really are just as evil as our prejudices told us" is pretty enormously missing the point.

 

[BillJ]

I'd rather it weren't. The Gorn as an evil race bent on galactic conquest? That's completely inconsistent with how they've been portrayed in the past. Okay, maybe something changed them after the timeline split in 2233; maybe they were taken over by a militant caste, like the coup in the graphic novel The Gorn Crisis but with more success. But the whole thematic point of "Arena" was that it's wrong to judge by appearances -- that just because the Gorn looked like scary alligator-men, that didn't make them evil. It was an allegory about prejudice and fear of the other. So saying "Yeah, the Gorn really are just as evil as our prejudices told us" is pretty enormously missing the point.

I think Spock Prime is senile and he had them put New Vulcan on Cestus III.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

But the whole thematic point of "Arena" was that it's wrong to judge by appearances -- that just because the Gorn looked like scary alligator-men, that didn't make them evil.

They made point in the alteernate universe.

So saying "Yeah, the Gorn really are just as evil as our prejudices told us" is pretty enormously missing the point.

There are plenty of evil races in Trek.

 

[Christopher]

^But the point of "Arena" was that the Gorn weren't one of them, that we misunderstood their intentions because of our instinctive fear of their appearance.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Hadn't they became the bad guys and joined the Typhon Pact anyway?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm not sure the Gorn are going to be a one-dimensional evil in the nuTrek game. AFAIK the opening chapter is about the colonists on New Vulcan having turned violent due to exposure to some toxin produced by certain subspecies of Gorn. I suspect it's going to turn out that the Gorn themselves are being coerced in a similar manner.

 

[Christopher]

Hadn't they became the bad guys and joined the Typhon Pact anyway?

No, because the Typhon Pact is not "evil." It's simply a group of nations who've chosen to band together for mutual benefit, including some factions who are more moderate and others who are more militant, and the story of the Pact is largely about the tensions and maneuverings between those different factions to determine the future identity of the alliance.

I'm not sure the Gorn are going to be a one-dimensional evil in the nuTrek game. AFAIK the opening chapter is about the colonists on New Vulcan having turned violent due to exposure to some toxin produced by certain subspecies of Gorn. I suspect it's going to turn out that the Gorn themselves are being coerced in a similar manner.

I hope you're right, but the original press release did describe the Gorn as "a blood-thirsty race determined to conquer the galaxy" and "among the most iconic villains in the Star Trek universe."

The problem is, Star Trek is a series about building understanding with those who are different and thereby avoiding war and conflict, while video games are generally about fighting and thus have to create overt villains to do battle with. So they tend to go in rather different directions. This is why I don't care for most ST games -- they're too much of a departure from what ST is all about. I'd rather see more games that are about exploration and problem-solving. The 25th Anniversary Game was like that, with story-adventures that were structured like Trek episodes, but still there were obligatory ship-combat sequences you had to get through in order to advance (not to mention that I found the adventures' puzzles awkwardly set up and impossible to solve without the cheat/walkthrough instructions).

 

[Drago-Kazov]

For the record we have just simply evil species like the Jem,'Hadar.

 

[BillJ]

For the record we have just simply evil species like the Jem,'Hadar.

I don't think the Jem'Hadar qualify as "evil".

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Why, i mean they are designed to be that. That's why Odo failed raising one of them. Also the Vorsoth are pure evil.

 

[BillJ]

Why, i mean they are designed to be that. That's why Odo failed raising one of them. Also the Vorsoth are pure evil.

I don't even think that qualifies. We've see too many of them break the mold from Hippocratic Oath to Rocks and Shoals.

Never heard of the Vorsoth...

 

[M'Sharak]

Why, i mean they are designed to be that. That's why Odo failed raising one of them. Also the Vorsoth are pure evil.

I don't even think that qualifies. We've see too many of them break the mold from Hippocratic Oath to Rocks and Shoals.

Never heard of the Vorsoth...

I've never heard of them either. Memory Beta has an entry for them, but it's kind of vague about whether the Vohrsoth have actually been seen/mentioned/referenced anywhere.

Edit:

Does Memory Beta even have an "Edit History" feature?