So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data?

[ALF]

After the end of Nemesis, B4 sings/hums Data's song he sang earlier at the wedding.

After the sadness/heavy weight of his death this is meant to possibly lighten up the serious tone.

But because it will take time for all of Data's experiences (which are arguably all 1's and 0's) to fully be loaded/processed into B4 and integrated into his personality...

...does Data "emerge" at a future date, self-actualized? Is this a matter of years, weeks, hours?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

I think that was done to give Paramount a contingency if Spiner ever decides to reprise that role ever again.

 

[BriGuy]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

It was cheap and belittled Data's loss and the sacrifice he made. They tried to leave a "Spock clause" in the movie, and I wish they hadn't done it.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

I didn't exactly like the original resurrection of Spock, either.

 

[WillsBabe]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

I agree that the Spock clause cheapened Data's death. I imagine that in the TNG future that followed on from Nemesis B4 is slowing "becoming Data". Thinking that, it somehow makes it seem to me that Data didn't die at all.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Technically, he didn't. And neither did Lal, or Lore, and so on.

 

[ALF]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Vixen said:
I think that was done to give Paramount a contingency if Spiner ever decides to reprise that role ever again.

But that's what doesn't make sense.
I believe Spiner was quite public about his wishes to kill Data off.

He was reportedly pissed about Data not getting rubbed out in Insurrection. Something about not wanting to see Data older, fatter and with wrinkles.

Of course, in 5-10 years I could see a completely seamless CGI Data/Spiner on screen. That's besides the point.

Is B4 featured in any TNG post Nem fiction?

 

[Christopher]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Vixen said:
Technically, he didn't. And neither did Lal, or Lore, and so on.

Which is exactly why B4 wouldn't "become Data." When Data downloaded Lal's memories into his own brain, he didn't "become Lal." Having her knowledge didn't equate to having her personality and identity. So it follows that downloading Data's knowledge into B4 wouldn't mean that Data's personality would resurface in B4. At best, B4 would be a different individual who remembers Data's life.

Besides, there's the fact that B4 is a much cruder prototype with very limited mental capacity. Expecting him to become Data is like expecting a Commodore 64 to run Windows XP.

True, the whole "memory download" thing was indeed done as a way of giving the filmmakers an out if they got to do another movie and Spiner changed his mind about playing Data again. But having B4 become Data would've been an implausible stretch for the reasons cited, so since there's little or no likelihood of Spiner playing Data again, I see no reason to make that stretch. So no, I neither suppose nor assume that B4 eventually becomes Data. Frankly, I think that's by far the least interesting way to go with the B4 character or with the consequences of Data's death.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Holiday Huxtable said:
Is B4 featured in any TNG post Nem fiction?

Not as far as I know. Beyond Articles of the Federation, where the Federation Judiciary Council ruled that he was allowed to determine his own fate and not be treated like some random piece of machinery (a la The Measure of a Man)

 

[SiorX]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

B4 appears very briefly in Resistance, where he gets shipped off to SF for examination and the like.

I prefer to read the bit where B4 sings (but can't complete the song) at the end of Nemesis as deliberate contrast to make Data's loss more poignant.

Y'know, one contrasts what we've seen Data become over the years, how human, to what B4 is. At the end Picard is left face to face with an earlier version who cannot ever comprehend all that, who can only meaninglessly pull up fragments of files, and it's clear that even though Data was a machine, his life and personality are just as gone and irreplacable as any human's.

'Course, one often has to do quite a lot of fanwanking when dealing with Nemesis.

 

[RandyS]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Holiday Huxtable said:
Is B4 featured in any TNG post Nem fiction?

At the beginning of the novel RESISTANCE, yes, but the chatracter is written off so quickly that any possibility of him becoming Data later on is pretty much shot.

Too bad too. I understand Spiner's desire to move on, but killing Data was idiotic, and now, the novels have to suffer for it.

I suppose the books could always do was the TOS line did, got back to the days of the series, so Data coul be around, but so far, there's no indication that will happen anytime soon.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

SiorX said:
I prefer to read the bit where B4 sings (but can't complete the song) at the end of Nemesis as deliberate contrast to make Data's loss more poignant.

I'm fairly sure that is what was meant. You might remember everything about Data but simple information isn't personality.

Earlier talk in the movie about how B-4 is way more inferiorer to Data just like how Shinzon sucks compared to Picard focuses on how B-4 doesn't aspire to be more than he is; I believe the intent was to suggest that maybe B-4 was starting to get the idea that ``striving to be more'' is important, even if he, surprisingly, doesn't understand why.

Were I running Trek, B-4 would not simply blend into a New Data, but perhaps into something new which may be able to remember Data's experiences the way Data very occasionally remembered the experiences of Omicron Ceti III settlers when it's dramatically useful.

 

[hellsgate]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

The only way I'd use B4 is on another vessel with another crew. A fresh crew that's absolutely unaware of either Data, The Enterprise or B4's involvement with the Romulans. I plan on bringing B4 back in one of my fics. I'm just not sure which one & exactly when.

 

[Christopher]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

I don't get why people assume B-4 would be on a starship at all. He has the mind of a three-year-old with a learning disability. Combine that with android superstrength and it wouldn't be safe to have him on a starship with things like phasers and airlocks and warp cores that breach if you look at them funny. Even aside from that, who'd take care of him? There might still be family members on starships occasionally, but who could serve in loco parentis for B-4? Certainly not Picard or Geordi or any of Data's former friends, since they're too busy with command duties. And what possible function could he serve aboard ship that would be worth the trouble of keeping him around?

The novels' approach, shipping him to the Daystrom Institute, seems far more reasonable.

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

B4 : Data :: Homsar : Homestar Runner

 

[sbk1234]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

Speaking as one of the eight people who liked Nemesis, I personally never liked the idea of B-4. It's been done to death. That said, the one positive thing about the future of TNG films being so bleak, the chances of them actually following up on this in future films is not quite as good as a snowball's chance in Hell. In my own personal canon, they got rid of B-4 at Earth. Starfleet did some research, but B-4 self-destructed, making sure there would never again be another Soong android in the Star Trek universe.

 

[RandyS]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

^There are actually nine of us.

And I agree with you about the idea of B-4 being stupid, but then, it was stupid to kill Data at all.

 

[Mott the barber]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

BriGuy said:
It was cheap and belittled Data's loss and the sacrifice he made. They tried to leave a "Spock clause" in the movie, and I wish they hadn't done it.

Completely agree. As a TNG fan from the begining, I try to put Nemesis out of my mind as much as possible.

 

[Vic Sixx]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

^There are actually nine of us.


^ Make that 10 of us!

 

[K-Star]

Re: So do you suppose/assume that B4 eventually becomes Data

It would be nice, but wouldn't that be weird for Data's friends if he came back?

Personally, I think he should've never been killed at all. He should've lived and they should've kept B4 and B4 should've been trained by Data. The memory transfer was supposed to help B4 see that it's important to strive to be more than what he is. Data thought the years of experience would give B4 an advantage. B4 could've been like Data's (older) little brother or something.