So Data's dead and Trip gets a second chance at ponfar?

[F. King Daniel]

^ Just to clarify, the novels aren't "getting away" with anything. Everything's still being vetted by the CBS Licensing office, and if they had druthers about any particular direction for the stories to go, they'd make those desires/demands known just as they always have.

Doesn't make opinions about the end results of such endeavors any less valid, tho

Just to clarify, I meant that authors are given much more leeway to bend canon then they used to. I didn't mean to imply stuff's getting in below the radar.

 

[Claudia]

Were it my decision to make, I'd have B-4 remain "himself," but with access to whatever portion of knowledge and memories Data transferred to him, to use as he made his way through his own life, on his own terms...for better or worse.

(And not to derail the thread, but in a similar vein, I wish the Voyager producers had taken the bolder path of keeping "Tuvix," even if it meant losing Tuvok and Neelix. That would've been ballsy, particularly coming as it would have at that point in the series, when fans had become invested in the characters. Oh, well.)

Absolutely agree with both scenarios.

Then again, the scenario with B4 reminds me a bit of the Trill-symbiont-relationship in that the next host has access to the previous ones' experiences. So perhaps such an idea for B4/Data wasn't deemed original enough to warrant exploration?!?

Anyway, I'd love to see something like this happen (and I'd love to, one day, read a MyrU-VOY story where Tuvix wasn't killed...).

 

[Cicero]

I wouldn't mind if they brought Data back but I'm not cool with the idea of how they did it in the Countdown comic.

Regarding Kadohata, not a fan. I hope that she doesn't come back. To me she was boring. I didn't like how they retconned her into being a member of the Enterprise-D. I thought it was cheap way to establish the character instead of just showing her developing a relationship with the crew from the start.

To be honest, the only reason I bought Losing the Peace was because I read that she was leaving the series. The only two things that stood out about her, and the only reason they stood out was because they were mentioned in almost every scene she was in that she is Asian with an English accent and that she is a mother torn between her family and her duty. I kept thinking just make a decision darn it, and I'm glad that she decided to go with the family, at least for now.

My opinion is nearly opposite: Kadohata was the only aspect of the relaunch that I liked, and my interest in the series has declined significantly now that she appears to be out of the picture (much as my interest in DS9 is reduced without Prynn and Shar's relationship; I'm still puzzled as to why all three romantic pairs that were relatively new to the first "season" of the books were ended within a few novels after Unity).

 

[KRAD]

Regarding Kadohata, not a fan. I hope that she doesn't come back. To me she was boring. I didn't like how they retconned her into being a member of the Enterprise-D. I thought it was cheap way to establish the character instead of just showing her developing a relationship with the crew from the start.

FWIW, the reason why I did that was because there were 1000 people on the Enterprise-D, and we saw about 20 of them. I wanted Kadohata to be one of the other 980.

Leybenzon was to be the newcomer to the crew with whom the rest of the crew would have to develop a relationship.

That, at least, was my impetus for those two characters.....

 

[Christopher]

FWIW, the reason why I did that was because there were 1000 people on the Enterprise-D, and we saw about 20 of them. I wanted Kadohata to be one of the other 980.

What always bugged me was that there were supposed to be hundreds of scientists aboard, both Starfleet and civilian, but the only people who ever went down to study a new planet or cosmic phenomenon or whatever were the regular cast members and maybe a security guard or two. What were all those scientists doing????

 

[Thrawn]

I always figured that there had to be some rule about away team missions, that you had to go through some training or something to do them, and that the civilian scientists definitely didn't have that training and most of the Starfleeters didn't either. But like 90% of science is analyzing the data anyway, so if you grant that tricorders are really freaking awesome and gather all kinds of information, I can imagine hundreds of scientists slowly churning out research papers with the data the away teams gathered.

Plus, the episodes we saw were the exciting things. Presumably, every once in a while, the Enterprise would just stay for a week in orbit around something cool and everyone would get to play, but it wouldn't be eventful, so we never got those stories.

That all said: I agree it's weird.

 

[Christopher]

Of course, the real explanation is that guest stars cost money and the stories needed to focus on the regulars. Still, it did undermine the plausibility of the premise.

I once came up with my own idea of how an exploratory starship might function, and in my version, there was a whole great big mission ops center behind the bridge, crewed by the scientific specialists who stayed aboard while the generalists of the dedicated survey teams went down to do the exploring. The mission-ops specialists would monitor everything the survey team did and be there to advise them as needed or direct them to investigate certain things.

 

[JD]

Regarding Kadohata, not a fan. I hope that she doesn't come back. To me she was boring. I didn't like how they retconned her into being a member of the Enterprise-D. I thought it was cheap way to establish the character instead of just showing her developing a relationship with the crew from the start.

FWIW, the reason why I did that was because there were 1000 people on the Enterprise-D, and we saw about 20 of them. I wanted Kadohata to be one of the other 980.

Leybenzon was to be the newcomer to the crew with whom the rest of the crew would have to develop a relationship.

That, at least, was my impetus for those two characters.....

That was actually one of the things I thought was cool about the character. I thought it was fun getting to actually see one of those hundreds of people on the Ent-D that we never saw during the show.

 

[Trent Roman]

The fact that Data's dead and Trip's alive is very aggravating,

Margaret Clark made the decision to 'resurrect' Tucker, keep Data dead, and kill Janeway. Needless to say, this is not a mindset I understand.

Like you, I never much cared for Tucker. The character was an infantile dope. But TATV was a pretty bad episode that gave the character a really crappy death (about at par with Data, though better than Janeway), and on that basis alone I supported bringing the character back, because what was done to him was just contemptible. Unfortunately, the ridiculously byzantine method chosen for this 'resurrection', and Tucker subsequent hogging the spotlight (likely for the same reasons he was brought back--i.e., the editor was a fan of the character) with his absurdist rocambolesques, have led me to abandon the series... so I suppose, in that respect, I would have preferred that he remain dead.

Data's absence, I somehow mind less; perhaps because there was an arc to his death, no matter how sketchy. I'd still like to see him return eventually, and disagree with those who feel his storytelling potential had been exhausted, but I'm in no rush to see that happen (unlike another character). I'm willing to wait until the right story is found, the right progression plotted out.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[pookha]

I think the notion of Data's memories/whatever "taking over" B-4 is one of the most un-Star Trek like things to do with the character. Deliberately replacing the personality of one being with that of another? Setting aside the morality discussions to be had there, would Data even want that? Would he "agree" to it, were it to happen, or would he view it as a selfish, perhaps even "murderous" act?

Good point. From what we saw of Data's feelings (and yes, I think that's the right word no matter what hairs they split on the show) toward Lal, Lore, the exocomps, etc., he was very protective of other artificial life forms, especially "family."

it also smacks what almost happened to data in
"schizoid man ".

when graves tried to transfer himself into data to avoid death.

now if there could be a true willing intergration with b4 for some reason being willing to do it.
for instance a situation where data's insight and not just knowledge would be needed in a dire situation.

a willing tuvix.

i am sorry that data was killed off. not because of the movies but because i think the character could have been handled better in the books then some of the movies.
despite how i didnt like how the movies became the data and picard show i would like seeing data as first officer more then worf.

i just see worf more being some specialized starfleet agent or even an officer of a higher rank.. sort of a go to problem solver then first officer .

as for kadohata, i do wonder just how stable is the situation with the gorn considering cestus 3.

oh and away teams..
if it were me the first away teams would be security and just a few officers.
then after an all clear some of the scientists could do field work while others work the data on the ship.

 

[Christopher]

as for kadohata, i do wonder just how stable is the situation with the gorn considering cestus 3.

Well, "Arena" established that the Gorn had a legitimate prior claim to Cestus III in 2267, yet nonetheless it was home to a thriving human population a century and change later. That suggests to me that the Gorn were willing to let it go a long time ago. I believe the revanchist militant sect that briefly overthrew the Gorn government in The Gorn Crisis invaded Cestus III and tried to reclaim it, but they were quickly removed from power thanks to Picard and Data, and it seems unlikely that the current government (the one they overthrew and that owes its continued existence to Starfleet) would share their agendas.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

as for kadohata, i do wonder just how stable is the situation with the gorn considering cestus 3.

Well, "Arena" established that the Gorn had a legitimate prior claim to Cestus III in 2267, yet nonetheless it was home to a thriving human population a century and change later. That suggests to me that the Gorn were willing to let it go a long time ago. I believe the revanchist militant sect that briefly overthrew the Gorn government in The Gorn Crisis invaded Cestus III and tried to reclaim it, but they were quickly removed from power thanks to Picard and Data, and it seems unlikely that the current government (the one they overthrew and that owes its continued existence to Starfleet) would share their agendas.

That "revanchist militant sect that briefly overthrew the Gorn government in The Gorn Crisis" had no problem whatsoever securing the allegiance of the gorn army.
In these conditions, the Federation should be worried about the stability of this new gorn leadership they put in place (with no internal gorn parties supporting them), and Kadohata has good reason to worry about the gorn.

 

[DarKush]

Regarding Kadohata, not a fan. I hope that she doesn't come back. To me she was boring. I didn't like how they retconned her into being a member of the Enterprise-D. I thought it was cheap way to establish the character instead of just showing her developing a relationship with the crew from the start.

FWIW, the reason why I did that was because there were 1000 people on the Enterprise-D, and we saw about 20 of them. I wanted Kadohata to be one of the other 980.

Leybenzon was to be the newcomer to the crew with whom the rest of the crew would have to develop a relationship.

That, at least, was my impetus for those two characters.....

Thanks for explaining. It was not my intention to be insulting, if you felt I was. Good point about exploring the other characters on the Enterprise-D.

I'm curious about T'Lana. What was her purpose intended to be? Was she there just to create drama? I got an inkling that a Worf-T'Lana relationship was being set up but then the series went in a different direction with Before Dishonor and Destiny.

 

[David cgc]

The fact that Data's dead and Trip's alive is very aggravating,

Margaret Clark made the decision to 'resurrect' Tucker, keep Data dead, and kill Janeway. Needless to say, this is not a mindset I understand.

Like you, I never much cared for Tucker. The character was an infantile dope. But TATV was a pretty bad episode that gave the character a really crappy death (about at par with Data, though better than Janeway), and on that basis alone I supported bringing the character back, because what was done to him was just contemptible. Unfortunately, the ridiculously byzantine method chosen for this 'resurrection', and Tucker subsequent hogging the spotlight (likely for the same reasons he was brought back--i.e., the editor was a fan of the character) with his absurdist rocambolesques, have led me to abandon the series... so I suppose, in that respect, I would have preferred that he remain dead.

I rather liked Tucker, but given how things have been going with him, I'd prefer he'd stayed dead, too.

First of all, I maintain there was a really good episode in "These Are The Voyages," but it was dragged down by a lot of downright horrible stuff. Tucker's death (the actual death, with him putting on a brave face and winking at his friends just before her went into the imager) and the scene between Archer and T'Pol in his quarters among them. The circumstances where he was fatally wounded were terminally stupid (a jewel theft? Boarded by the most incompetent pirates ever? Blowing himself up? Jesus) but the dying was good. So I kind of would've liked to keep that.

But beyond that, Trip was going to die six years into the future. After the Romulan War, for heaven's sake. Three years after the show would've naturally ended, in all likelihood. They could've just crossed that bridge when they came to it, and we would've had plenty of Trip in his proper place in the crew dynamic instead of off on his own. And they wouldn't have the niggling, still unexplored issue of why his fake death was moved six years into the future. I'd assumed that was because he'd return to the crew shortly and they'd simply reuse the same cover story later on when he had to go under more permanently, but at this point, it means that whoever does the coverup is also going to have to fake the Enterprise having a different engineer for six years, without breaking everyone else's careers.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Or just filled in the six years between the last two episodes. TATV made some incredibly dumb choices (like brushing off Trip and T'Pol's 2-year story with one line) but they weren't as bad as the ones made by the relaunch books IMO.

Enterprise books had such potential for origin/first contacts with loads of the TOS/TNG/etc aliens. What do we get? A version of the Romulan war that tries so hard to marry up the Enterprise series with 1994's Star Trek Chronology that it forgets what made Enterprise fun (and that Enterprise happily ignored/rewrote the chronology repeatedly), fudges away Romulan cloaking tech that clearly worked in the series, makes a joke out of humans not knowing what Romulans look like, somehow makes a nothing out of the "real" Kobayashi Maru event, suddenly has Enterprise as part of a much larger Starfleet and tries to explain why TOS looks less advanced than Enterprise.

Bitter, disappointed fan's rant over

 

[Pauln6]

I was unhappier at Tasha Yar's (second, off camera) death on Romulas. I think that an older Tasha hidden with the Romulan undergound trying to survive (much like her childhood) had way more potential. Mind you, we've never seen a body so I suppose I can't see any reason why she couldn't.. oh wait... NuTrek supernova. Ouch.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

A supernova is far more merciful than a Denise Crosby performance any day of the week.

 

[Agenda]

Data is alive. I just use Countdown continuity. To me - although it's not canon - it's more 'authentic' than the books, seeing as how it directly leads up to Star Trek XI. And given how the end up Nemesis clearly indicates that Data could be living in his brother's body, I see no reason why he shouldn't be so.

And - btw - Trips still dead.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"All Trek tie-in's are non-canon, but some Trek tie-ins are less non-canon than others."

 

[RandyS]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I actually really like all of the GTTS-LTP TNG crew, with my favorites being Trys and Choudhury. Both of whom are IMO very unique characters, who have done alot to keep TNG interesting.

I'm in that apparent minority with you, then. I'm also very fond of Trys and Choudhury; I find them both fascinating characters. And, unlike most, I really like Kadohata too.

I also like the new characters, but thought Data's death was moronic. And as far as this issue of replacing B-4's personality with Data's....what personality? B-4 was a blank slate. He was nothing. Adding Data would give him a personality.

And I also agree with the OP about Trip. His death was the one good thing about TATV. A stupid death for a stupid loud-mouth character that never thought anything through. In other words the death was in character.

Of course the writers could keep Data dead if they want (which would be dumb) by simply setting some of the TNG novels during the seven year run of the show, right alongside the re-launch stuff. This way, everybody gets what they want.