So, after 6x09 what don't we know?

[sidious618]

That's probably just a blooper and they were focusing on the kid because he'd just been shooed away. I wouldn't put much into it.

 

[Mallet]

It's probably more the case that Dharma folk in the seventies found the Black Rock and took the log. And one of the Dharma folks took it out into the world. And then when he died, the log came to the auction block.

But apparently it was the Hanso Foundation that told/took Dharma to the Island originally.

 

[roliver]

This is a great question I do hope they visit. I heard one person's theory a year back is that the same magnetic anomaly that caused the crash also slowed the plane's descent so after it broke apart, the magnetic fields caused the plane to fall at a much slower rate. Just a theory though, I'd like to see them address this as well.

But not a very logical theory. For the magnetic fields to slow the plane down they would have to repulse the metal, and not attract it. We've twice seen what happens inside the hatch when the button is not pushed--everything metallic is strongly attracted to a specific point.

 

[Jenee]

Right. I'm not convinced Christian is MIB - in fact, Claire states specifically that they are two separate entities.

Of course Clair thinks they're two different people, just like she thinks MiB/Christian is actually her father. She also thought the Others had her baby, so clearly MiB has duped her the entire time and her perspective doesn't really help us clarify anything.

If Christian isn't Flocke, then where is Christian now? Why is it the very last time we saw Christian was right before Flocke appeared to the Ajira survivors? And after Flocke appeared, we never saw Christian again.

Where is 'the kid' now? Where is Christian's body if MIB isn't using it? Why haven't we seen Rose and Bernard since before MIB appeared to the Ajira survivors?

Your logic is flawed.

That's probably just a blooper and they were focusing on the kid because he'd just been shooed away. I wouldn't put much into it.

I don't think it's a blooper, but I also don't think it's significant. It was just a way of presenting Miles to be that much more creepy.

 

[DevilEyes]

Right. I'm not convinced Christian is MIB - in fact, Claire states specifically that they are two separate entities.

Of course Clair thinks they're two different people, just like she thinks MiB/Christian is actually her father. She also thought the Others had her baby, so clearly MiB has duped her the entire time and her perspective doesn't really help us clarify anything.

If Christian isn't Flocke, then where is Christian now? Why is it the very last time we saw Christian was right before Flocke appeared to the Ajira survivors? And after Flocke appeared, we never saw Christian again.

I don't believe that Christian is MIB, for several reasons: Christian's body was not in the coffin; he referred to Jack as "his son" in the mobisode "So it Begins" (with nobody but Vincent to hear him); he's been off the Island numerous times and was seen by several people, on and off the Island. If he could do all this in Christian's body, why did he need Locke's body? And if he was just taking Christian's form, where is Christian's body?

As noted, Claire thinks of them as two separate people, and I don't think that Claire was "duped" in that respect. If MIB was duping her that he was Christian, why did he disclose his identity to her, instead of continuing to dupe her? She knows he's neither Locke, nor "my father", he is "my friend". Judging by Claire's creepy smile in Cabin Fever, it seemed like she already knew a lot of things Locke did not.

Finally, it's interesting that in season 4 premiere (if I remember correctly), Hurley saw the Cabin, and Christian was there, but so was someone else whose face Hurley glimpsed very shortly. Who was it? I hope that we get the Cabin explained, and I certainly hope we see Christian again. Both because I need explanations, but also because I've always liked him.

 

[Agent Richard07]

That's probably just a blooper and they were focusing on the kid because he'd just been shooed away. I wouldn't put much into it.

It was brought up in the grading & discussion thread for Ep. 4x02 and it looks like Temis had some sort of "alternate reality" theory even back then. Interesting.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Maybe I'm thick but even after Jacob's talk to Richard, I still don't understand why he has to bring people to the island over and over again. I realize he's looking to prove something about inherent goodness, but why is that so important? What does he "win" when he can finally point to someone and say to MiB "See? I told you so." Will it change something? Make it so that the island's purpose is negated? Make the MiB a good guy and then everyone can go home?

Also when we first saw Jacob and his rival, Jacob said to MiB "it only has to end once". He may have just been talking about the candidates here, but I get the feeling he was referring to something else.

 

[label]

I don't believe that Christian is MIB, for several reasons: Christian's body was not in the coffin; he referred to Jack as "his son" in the mobisode "So it Begins" (with nobody but Vincent to hear him); he's been off the Island numerous times and was seen by several people, on and off the Island. If he could do all this in Christian's body, why did he need Locke's body? And if he was just taking Christian's form, where is Christian's body?

The more I think about this, the more I think your right. The MIB isn't assuming Christians form. I am convinced the Christian is "alive" for the same reason Sayid is now and that the MIB has "claimed" Christian as he did with Claire and Sayid if for no other reason (and there are other reasons) than Christian was the one who told Locke he would need to leave the island and die which is exactly what the MIB needed to create his loophole.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Minor observation, not really important, but given how "Smokey-centric" the show has become at this point, isn't it a bit weird that in the early seasons it seemed like none of the Others knew about the smoke monster?

 

[Jenee]

The others had been protected by the sonic fence - which they'd been told was there to keep out the other others. Probably most had never seen the smoke monster.

 

[Jenee]

Oh, yea. I just remembered. Ben summoned Smokey to go after the freighter people after that guy shot Alex.

 

[LitmusDragon]

I might be wrong but I seem to remember a scene in season two where someone asked one of the others (may have even been Smiley) about the smoke monster and he played dumb. I think there was also a chase scene where the losties were captured by the others and smokey broke it up and whichever "other" was involved indicates they'd never seen the smoke monster before. But yes, Ben did know about it it in season 4.

 

[Checkmate]

Minor observation, not really important, but given how "Smokey-centric" the show has become at this point, isn't it a bit weird that in the early seasons it seemed like none of the Others knew about the smoke monster?

The show has changed drastically from its beginnings. The Others are nothing like what they were originally. Originally, they were an integral part of the island, who's very essences were tied to its mysticism. Which is why they were like ghosts in the night that couldn't be tracked, spoke in Latin, and were being punished by no longer being able to breed (apparently caused by Ben's faulty leadership).

Today, they're just a bunch of chumps who were all brought to the island in pretty much the same way as the Losties and even Dharma's members were. They certainly didn't exist when Richard was brought to the island -- we were clearly told everyone up until that point was dead. And now even the Losties can outtrack, outsneak, and outsmart every single one of them. The breeding thing is a non-issue (since, again, we now know that their numbers grew courtesy of Jacob bringing people to the island, not because they've always been a part of it), and there isn't a single mystical thing about them other than a precious few of them knowing a few of the island's secrets.

So yeah, there's clearly some disaparity. The same holds true for Smokey. What he was in the beginning of the show is nothing at all like what he is now. Despite some feeble attempts to rationalize it, which do about as good a job as rationalizing the gross changes in the Others or even Dharma itself.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Minor observation, not really important, but given how "Smokey-centric" the show has become at this point, isn't it a bit weird that in the early seasons it seemed like none of the Others knew about the smoke monster?

The show has changed drastically from its beginnings. The Others are nothing like what they were originally. Originally, they were an integral part of the island, who's very essences were tied to its mysticism. Which is why they were like ghosts in the night that couldn't be tracked, spoke in Latin, and were being punished by no longer being able to breed (apparently caused by Ben's faulty leadership).

Today, they're just a bunch of chumps who were all brought to the island in pretty much the same way as the Losties and even Dharma's members were. They certainly didn't exist when Richard was brought to the island -- we were clearly told everyone up until that point was dead. And now even the Losties can outtrack, outsneak, and outsmart every single one of them. The breeding thing is a non-issue (since, again, we now know that their numbers grew courtesy of Jacob bringing people to the island, not because they've always been a part of it), and there isn't a single mystical thing about them other than a precious few of them knowing a few of the island's secrets.

So yeah, there's clearly some disaparity. The same holds true for Smokey. What he was in the beginning of the show is nothing at all like what he is now. Despite some feeble attempts to rationalize it, which do about as good a job as rationalizing the gross changes in the Others or even Dharma itself.

I dunno, I think there was a reason that such things were written in a purposefully vague or even misleading way.

A mystery in itself is a very strong thing. Once a mystery is explained, all possibilities and avenues of thought are gone, and so is the intrigue.

 

[DevilEyes]

I might be wrong but I seem to remember a scene in season two where someone asked one of the others (may have even been Smiley) about the smoke monster and he played dumb. I think there was also a chase scene where the losties were captured by the others and smokey broke it up and whichever "other" was involved indicates they'd never seen the smoke monster before. But yes, Ben did know about it it in season 4.

Didn't Juliet know about it in season 3?

 

[label]

I might be wrong but I seem to remember a scene in season two where someone asked one of the others (may have even been Smiley) about the smoke monster and he played dumb. I think there was also a chase scene where the losties were captured by the others and smokey broke it up and whichever "other" was involved indicates they'd never seen the smoke monster before. But yes, Ben did know about it it in season 4.

Didn't Juliet know about it in season 3?

Yep, she knew enough about it to know that the sonic fence would protect her and kate when Juliet was trying join the Losties. If she knew, Ben knew. Ben has probably known about smokey for a long time. Ben even knew how to summon it so clearly the others knew/have known about smokey for as at least as long as Ben's been around/in charge and I'm guessing they've always known because Richard's always known.

 

[DevilEyes]

Minor observation, not really important, but given how "Smokey-centric" the show has become at this point, isn't it a bit weird that in the early seasons it seemed like none of the Others knew about the smoke monster?

The show has changed drastically from its beginnings. The Others are nothing like what they were originally. Originally, they were an integral part of the island, who's very essences were tied to its mysticism. Which is why they were like ghosts in the night that couldn't be tracked, spoke in Latin, and were being punished by no longer being able to breed (apparently caused by Ben's faulty leadership).

Today, they're just a bunch of chumps who were all brought to the island in pretty much the same way as the Losties and even Dharma's members were. They certainly didn't exist when Richard was brought to the island -- we were clearly told everyone up until that point was dead. And now even the Losties can outtrack, outsneak, and outsmart every single one of them. The breeding thing is a non-issue (since, again, we now know that their numbers grew courtesy of Jacob bringing people to the island, not because they've always been a part of it), and there isn't a single mystical thing about them other than a precious few of them knowing a few of the island's secrets.

So yeah, there's clearly some disaparity. The same holds true for Smokey. What he was in the beginning of the show is nothing at all like what he is now. Despite some feeble attempts to rationalize it, which do about as good a job as rationalizing the gross changes in the Others or even Dharma itself.

Is the origin of the Others really such a surprise? The only time they might have seemed really that mysterious was before we saw many of them (i.e. in season 1). I've been certain since season 3 that all of the Others, apart from Richard, were brought to the Island relatively recently, during the last few decades. (And the only reason I figured Richard was older was his appearance in The Man Behind the Curtain and the mystery of his lack of aging.) And even before that, in season 2, it didn't seem like the Others were really natives to the Island or that they have been there for that long. If they were, where did people like Tom and Ethan pick up their contemporary American accents? Since season 3, we have known that Mikhail was brought to the Island, and since TMBTC we have known that Ben, their leader, was brought to the Island as a child. It was unlikely that many of them were born there, let alone that their parents were. The only person who seemed to have been there all along was the mysterious Jacob that they all were claiming loyalty to, some of them saying that he brought them to the Island.

The presentation of the Others have always shown the irony of mystifying the unknown, and being scared of strangers, of another group of people who seem powerful, exotic, dangerous and enigmatic until we actually get to know them. It's happened to every group of people who was ever on the Island. Even Smokey and Jacob will probably seem much more human once we learn about their origin and background.

 

[Agent Richard07]

When we first heard of Jacob, I thought he was some big corporate head running things off the island.

 

[Checkmate]

We do know that the lack of being able to give birth was, apparently, a huge deal for them. To the point that they were worried that they'd have to recruit off-island to maintain their numbers. Which directly implied that they had been sustaining their numbers naturally on the island, which we know to be false.

There's tons of things like that which has changed since the beginning. The fertility issue -- and the presence of a statue devoted to a fertility goddess on the island at all -- just doesn't make any sense at all considering what we know at present. Especially since the lack of fertility was portrayed as being some major punishment to the Others because of Ben.

 

[Ryan8bit]

We do know that the lack of being able to give birth was, apparently, a huge deal for them. To the point that they were worried that they'd have to recruit off-island to maintain their numbers. Which directly implied that they had been sustaining their numbers naturally on the island, which we know to be false.

Maybe I just can't remember, but who said they'd have to recruit to maintain their numbers?