SMALLVILLE: JL or L*?

[Admiral_Young]

Actually wait I forgot...Ollie is Batman anyway so yeah he isn't his own character. He's so far from his comic book counterpart it's laughable.

 

[Jetfire]

It really is. I don't think they should have gone this far with Green Arrow...maybe a few quest spots...but not a regular.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The only thing is that I don't think they would have Bruce Wayne reveal that he was Batman on the show. That's the only difference so far between their characters. Another hero I'm surprised that hasn't been on the show but maybe now because of the upcoming film is Green Lantern. They could surely use the Corps against Darkseid.

 

[Jetfire]

Yeah...but they would do something equally ridiculous.

[edit] I mean the Legion is pretty much idiot proof...but the JLers with secret IDs not so much.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I like your idea of the Legionaires infiltrating in the background. There was just an issue of Adventures where the Legion travels back to Smallville and helps Clark on the farm and a great scene where Jonathon tries to get Brainy to calm down and enjoy things, the two of them have a fantastic scene where they stargaze together. Brainy of course is in awe of finally meeting Jonathon Kent and ticks it off his to do list.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think they should have gone this far with Green Arrow...maybe a few quest spots...but not a regular.

Well, look at it in terms of the needs of a TV series facing real-life contingencies. After season 7, they lost four of their regular cast members, fully half the cast, and they needed to replace them. After such an upheaval, it made sense to have at least one of the new regulars be a pre-existing character just to provide some continuity. Justin Hartley was a prominent recurring player already, he'd gone over well enough that the producers wanted him to stick around, and he was available and willing to do a regular gig. Plus, his established characterization let him fill the "rich bad boy" niche vacated by Michael Rosenbaum (as well as allowing them to continue using the standing sets for LuthorCorp, the private jet, etc. by having Oliver take over the company). Also, given that the new producers as of season 8 decided to break Clark out of his 7-year rut and have him actually begin embracing the role of a superhero, it was logical to give a more prominent role to Oliver, who'd been established as the leader of the Justice League. So there were a lot of good reasons to make him a regular, within the context of that state of affairs.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ You're not telling us anything we don't already know. His point was that maybe it would have been better if Ollie had been a reoccurring character rather than a regular cast member who's basically the Smallville version of Batman. Olllie is essentially their transferred plans for Bruce Wayne.

 

[Jetfire]

@Christopher

S6: TW(Clark), AM(Chloe), KK(Lana), ED(Lois), MR(Lex), AO(Martha), AA(Jimmy), JG(Lionel) 8
S7: TW(Clark), AM(Chloe), KK(Lana), ED(Lois), MR(Lex), LV(Kara), AA(Jimmy), JG(Lionel) 8
S8: TW(Clark), AM(Chloe), ED(Lois), AA(Jimmy), CF(Tess), SW(Davis), JH(Oliver) 7
S9: TW(Clark), AM(Chloe), ED(Lois), CF(Tess), JH(Oliver), CB(Zod) 6
S10: TW(Clark), ED(Lois), CF(Tess), JH(Oliver) 4

They only lost 1 regular between S7 & S8...they only have 4 regs now and JH(Oliver) isn't even important to the over all arc...he never was. If anything CF(Tess) & SW(Davis) did more to help Clark in a season(8) context...JH(Oliver) could have been in only a hand full of eps and done what you claimed. CF(Tess) handled the LuthorCorp stuff.

 

[Christopher]

They only lost 1 regular between S7 & S8...

I'm talking about actual people, not just quantities. They lost four of their cast members (Kreuk, Rosenbaum, Glover, Vandervoort) and added three new ones (Hartley, Freeman, Witwer), hence 8 - 4 + 3 = 7. My point is that losing those four people created the need to replace them with new regulars, giving them an incentive to up Hartley to regular status.

they only have 4 regs now and JH(Oliver) isn't even important to the over all arc...he never was.

This isn't prose fiction where story is the only thing you have to consider. Television production is an expensive and complicated undertaking and the storytelling often has to be shaped by numerous external factors -- the loss of an actor, the popularity of an actor, the size of the budget, etc. And the bottom line is always about cold, hard cash, not abstract story ideals. And that means ratings. If an actor brings in ratings, if he gets eyes on the screen, then you increase the size of his role whether it arises organically from the story or not. That's why Buffy and Angel kept finding increasingly contrived excuses to keep Spike around. Sometimes the logic of the story takes a back seat to other considerations, such as the desire of female viewers to watch good-looking male actors. This show has always been targeted at teen girls and young women. They're not going to make do with only one male heartthrob.

Besides, the show is barely getting by now with only four regulars (poor Lois was stuck talking to a dog this week because there are so few other characters for her to interact with anymore). They certainly can't afford to lose any more.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Whaddya you mean barely getting by? It just 2.9 million on Friday.

 

[Christopher]

I'm not talking about ratings, I'm talking about structuring a story. (Good grief, why is everyone today thinking I'm talking about numbers when I'm talking about something entirely different?) Having only four regular characters is an impediment because it reduces the possible character permutations and can result in the kind of awkward situation I referred to, where Lois was stuck spending most of the episode watching a videotape, talking to a dog, and talking to an empty ice fortress. Drama thrives on interaction. Characters need other characters to play off of. Especially on a show like this, that's always been heavy on the soap opera, reducing the regular cast to a measly four people is very limiting. It's starting to feel claustrophobic to me.

 

[Jetfire]

^ You're not telling us anything we don't already know. His point was that maybe it would have been better if Ollie had been a reoccurring character rather than a regular cast member who's basically the Smallville version of Batman. Olllie is essentially their transferred plans for Bruce Wayne.

Oliver should have been just a reoccurring character. I am not even sure a "Bruce Wayne" type was even needed there is much that can be pulled from the Superman mythos without adding a stack of heroes to the deck. I wish they kept Kara around

 

[Icemizer]

I would have much preferred more interaction with the JSA than with the Legion. The Legion stories would always have had to end in a similiar fashion. Sorry Kal we cant tell you that, or sorry Kal you learned to much and now we have to wipe your memory of that event but dont worry you will be the greatest. While this may have given us some interesting stories it wouldnt have moved Clark towards being Superman any faster.
Now the JSA on the other hand could have worked towards that goal much better. Every season Clark runs into another member of the old JSA who teaches him a little bit more about what it means to be a hero. Season 1, WildCat actually teaches him how to fight, Season 2, Starman teaches him about sacrifice(dies in that episode) and on and on until from meeting these great heroes of days past he is molded into the hero we know he will be.
I just dont think the Legion could have provided that kind of story telling depth due to that fact that they always need the reset at the end of their appearances.

 

[Jetfire]

The JSA would have been cool.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Christopher...I'm shocked as a writer that you didn't get the point of the structure of Friday's episode? Since you like to spell things out to people I'm going to do so for you now. Lois's story arc with her mother and the fortress was DIRECTLY related to their overall arc as a couple. She was trying to help him deal with an obvious gap in his life by reuniting with his father. I don't know if you noticed or not but Clark and Lois interacted in the Fortress and the scene ultimately paid off. Sigh.

 

[Christopher]

^Okay, you are completely failing to hear what I'm saying. What you just posted there has absolutely no comprehensible relationship to my point. So I won't even try to clarify any further because somehow you and I are just not communicating on the same wavelength.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ See though you've failed once again to even remotely get what Jetfire and I have been posting about as well.

Back to the topic at hand though, I agree that the JSA'ers have been pretty awesome. They're introduction last season was handled brilliantly and know friends who watched just for those episodes.

 

[Jetfire]

^ Would be epic if they could use Green Lantern(Alan Scott) & Flash(Jay Garrick). Absolute Justice gave a great glimpse at the possibilities.

Now the JSA on the other hand could have worked towards that goal much better. Every season Clark runs into another member of the old JSA who teaches him a little bit more about what it means to be a hero. Season 1, WildCat actually teaches him how to fight, Season 2, Starman teaches him about sacrifice(dies in that episode) and on and on until from meeting these great heroes of days past he is molded into the hero we know he will be.

As Icemizer posted bringing 1 or 2 each season would have been nice. I am not sure how Smallville could do Power Girl but she would be fun to see live action.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Power Girl is a little tricky to do since she's Supergirl from Earth-2 but I've always wanted to see Karen on "Smallville". I'm really enjoying her ongoing solo series from Winnick.

 

[Jetfire]

Spoiler: Spoiler About S10 Ep "Luthor"

Well Clark will switch places with is AU counter part...here there could be a AU Kara...if he could nab her and bring her to his U...Power Girl!