Small-Universe Syndrome

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^As Christopher pointed out, I think some of those were legitimate occurrences, as the Voth and the Borg drones were each looking Voyager, as was Lindsay Ballard.

I tend to think of occurrences such as Spock and Sybok bumping into each other--and being related--after several decades as being examples of small-universe syndrome.

The same is true of situations like the Reliant (the ship on which Chekov is serving) finding Khan; now, I can accept that part of the reason this happened was because Reliant was searching sparsely populated areas in order to find a test site for Genesis, but what are the odds that someone who happened to serve on the Enterprise would be the one to find Khan and his followers?

--Sran

 

[Enterprise1701]

^As Christopher pointed out, I think some of those were legitimate occurrences, as the Voth and the Borg drones were each looking Voyager, as was Lindsay Ballard.

I agree, but I also think making the list underscores how overused such occurrences were on a TV series that was about a ship trying to get home with all deliberate speed and therefore not trying to turn around or anything like that.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

Meh, most other TV shows have these sort of coincidental occurrences just as frequently, if not moreso. It's quite common, and at times it is a storytelling necessity. A Completely 100% realistic show would end up being rather boring.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I tend to think of occurrences such as Spock and Sybok bumping into each other--and being related--after several decades as being examples of small-universe syndrome.

Isn't that an example of a larger universe? The fact that it took decades (and definitely not just 2 or 3 decades) to finally bump into each other? And they're brothers?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Meh, most other TV shows have these sort of coincidental occurrences just as frequently, if not moreso.

Just ask anyone who knew Jessica Fletcher.

Oh, wait...you can't, they're all dead.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Isn't that an example of a larger universe? The fact that it took decades (and definitely not just 2 or 3 decades) to finally bump into each other? And they're brothers?

No, it isn't. Finding one's long-lost brother after several decades apart is a highly improbable occurrence. That it happened because Sybok happened to be the master-mind behind the trouble on Nimbus III suggests the universe is small, not big.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

Finding one's long-lost brother after several decades apart is a highly improbable occurrence. That it happened because Sybok happened to be the master-mind behind the trouble on Nimbus III suggests the universe is small, not big.

Except it's not like they randomly stumbled across each other. Both of them ended up in positions where they did big, important things. Sybok became a cult leader and committed a terrorist act in order to draw a starship to him. Spock was the first officer of one of the most experienced and successful starship crews in the fleet, a crew that was hand-picked for the mission. It's plausible that two brothers would both have intelligence and leadership abilities on a comparable level and thus both end up in positions of importance and influence that might lead to their paths converging.

There's a difference between random processes and selective processes. When selection pressures come into play, they can direct people into the same circles and bring about meetings that would be far more unlikely in a completely random context.

 

[Silvercrest]

Here's a separate but related problem to small-universe syndrome in Voyager: how many people (apparently) have faster-than-warp transportation and interacted with U.S.S. Voyager as a result. Let's see:

Briori: unseen abductors of the 37s somehow went to Earth and back in the 20th century
Sikarians: advanced transporter than only works from their homeworld
the Sky Spirits of Chakotay's ancestors: somehow visited Earth circa 43000 B.C.E. and again as recently as 2252
Arridor and Kol the Ferengi: accidentally stranded and un-stranded via the Barzan Wormhole
Voth: transwarp drives
Borg: transwarp drive and transwarp conduit network (I'm not sure if those are the same thing for the Borg or not)
various Borg escapees: I dunno how Seven's former Borg crewmates in "Survival Instinct" got to Voyager's location in episode 6x02 but it must have taken some faster-than-warp propulsion. Meanwhile Korok of Unimatrix Zero seized control of his transwarp-equipped Borg sphere.
Species 8472: their home dimension is smaller than the space-time continuum, so I guess walking a step in fluidic space is like crossing light years in space-time
Kes the Ocampa: her awakened psionic abilities let her travel in space, teleport, push objects at warp speed, etc. So she leaves Voyager in episode 4x02 but finds them again in episode 6x23
Lyndsay Ballard and the Kobali: she dies at the hands of the Hirogen in 2374 but manages to find Voyager in episode 6x18 after Voyager had made jumps in "Night", "Timeless", "Dark Frontier", and "The Voyager Conspiracy", as does her new "family"
the genome thief: possessed a ship equipped with a coaxial warp drive
Arturis: his species developed quantum slipstream drive
Emck the Malon: discovered a spatial vortex and used it to dump antimatter waste in the Void thousands of light years away from Malon space
Devore Imperium: an interspatial flexure was known to be roving their space in 2375
Kuros's Think Tank: has some means of transportation that lets them go from Vidiian space sometime after episode 2x25 to being aware of Voyager's relations with the Malon to meeting Voyager in episode 5x20 after several of Voyager's jumps
Vaadwaur and Turei: Underspace
U.S.S. Equinox: killed the Ankari's "spirits of good fortune" for material to supercharge their warp drive
Tash: constructed a graviton catapult
colonists of New Talax: unknown means of going from Talaxian space to the Delta Quadrant-Beta Quadrant border

Not quite the same thing, but relating to the same problem: Barclay and the Pathfinder Project were able to locate Voyager repeatedly even though some of those instances were tens of thousands of light-years apart (and Pathfinder didn't know about the jump).

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Except it's not like they randomly stumbled across each other. Both of them ended up in positions where they did big, important things. Sybok became a cult leader and committed a terrorist act in order to draw a starship to him. Spock was the first officer of one of the most experienced and successful starship crews in the fleet, a crew that was hand-picked for the mission. It's plausible that two brothers would both have intelligence and leadership abilities on a comparable level and thus both end up in positions of importance and influence that might lead to their paths converging.

I'll buy that it's certainly plausible, but I still have a problem with the circumstances of how the two of them found each other.

I can accept that the Enterprise would be chosen for such a mission given Kirk's experience--which happens to why the ship was chosen according to Admiral Bennett--and I can accept that Spock, having been something of an outcast himself (due to his human heritage) would have befriended someone who's beliefs were out of step with the vast majority of Vulcans. What I have a problem is the idea that Spock and Sybok could be related, and that Spock would never have even mentioned this to Kirk or McCoy--it reminds me too much of Luke and Leia finding out they're related in Return of the Jedi. If Spock and Sybok had turned out be former colleagues or friends, I'd have found the whole ordeal more believable than they're being half-brothers.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

What I have a problem is the idea that Spock and Sybok could be related, and that Spock would never have even mentioned this to Kirk or McCoy--it reminds me too much of Luke and Leia finding out they're related in Return of the Jedi. If Spock and Sybok had turned out be former colleagues or friends, I'd have found the whole ordeal more believable than they're being half-brothers.

Granted, the long-lost, never-mentioned sibling is kind of a cliche. But -- we know that Spock and Sarek went for eighteen years without acknowledging each other as father and son because of a disagreement over Spock's career choice. Which makes it a lot more plausible that they'd go decades without acknowledging Sybok, given that his transgressions were even more extreme by Vulcan standards.

 

[MacLeod]

Except it's not like they randomly stumbled across each other. Both of them ended up in positions where they did big, important things. Sybok became a cult leader and committed a terrorist act in order to draw a starship to him. Spock was the first officer of one of the most experienced and successful starship crews in the fleet, a crew that was hand-picked for the mission. It's plausible that two brothers would both have intelligence and leadership abilities on a comparable level and thus both end up in positions of importance and influence that might lead to their paths converging.

I'll buy that it's certainly plausible, but I still have a problem with the circumstances of how the two of them found each other.

I can accept that the Enterprise would be chosen for such a mission given Kirk's experience--which happens to why the ship was chosen according to Admiral Bennett--and I can accept that Spock, having been something of an outcast himself (due to his human heritage) would have befriended someone who's beliefs were out of step with the vast majority of Vulcans. What I have a problem is the idea that Spock and Sybok could be related, and that Spock would never have even mentioned this to Kirk or McCoy--it reminds me too much of Luke and Leia finding out they're related in Return of the Jedi. If Spock and Sybok had turned out be former colleagues or friends, I'd have found the whole ordeal more believable than they're being half-brothers.

--Sran

Well in the case of TFF, they wanted Kirk specifcally as other starships where available. Which posses the question given the state of the Enterprise and the fac tthat other ships where available, why didn't they just give Kirk command of another ship for the duration of the mission.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Well in the case of TFF, they wanted Kirk specifcally as other starships where available. Which posses the question given the state of the Enterprise and the fac tthat other ships where available, why didn't they just give Kirk command of another ship for the duration of the mission.

That may have to do with something else that's been discussed on this board: Kirk's status relative to other command-level officers following TVH. It's possible that such a thing would not have been allowed--either because of another captain's unwillingness to turn his ship over to Kirk, or because another crew would not have been comfortable taking orders from him. What's more, I don't know that Kirk would have agreed to the assignment unless he could have ensured that Spock, McCoy and others were with him.

Kirk would not have been allowed to refuse to obey another officer's orders--especially not after the previous two films--but it's likely that taking Kirk off the Enterprise would have caused more problems than merely asking him to take his broken-down ship to Nimbus III.

--Sran

 

[Nebusj]

Well in the case of TFF, they wanted Kirk specifcally as other starships where available. Which posses the question given the state of the Enterprise and the fac tthat other ships where available, why didn't they just give Kirk command of another ship for the duration of the mission.

Look closely at the state of the Enterprise: every mission-critical system except the transporter was working just fine, and the transporter was marginal, with good reason to think it might be working by the time it was needed, and acceptable alternative methods were available if it weren't on hand.

It's embarrassing to have the doors be faulty and the Captain's Log iPad crashing, but none of that's important stuff.

 

[SicOne]

^ Whoa-whoa-whoa there, Nebusj. The Captain's Log entry is one of the most important aspects of the adventure. Without THAT, how will the chroniclers know when the mission took place? Dude, haven't you ever READ "Voyages Of Imagination"?

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Just ask anyone who knew Jessica Fletcher.

Oh, wait...you can't, they're all dead.

That's too much of a coincidence. That bitch needs to be investigated.

 

[T'Girl]

It's possible that such a thing would not have been allowed--either because of another captain's unwillingness to turn his ship over to Kirk, or because another crew would not have been comfortable taking orders from him.

If Kirk and his team were being sent to Nimbus to assess the situation and negotiate with terrorists, he wouldn't have had to of been in command of the starship that delivered them to the planet. Only in command of the mission.

Kirk just needed to be able to give commands to the starships's actual captain.

Chain of command

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well in the case of TFF, they wanted Kirk specifcally as other starships where available. Which posses the question given the state of the Enterprise and the fac tthat other ships where available, why didn't they just give Kirk command of another ship for the duration of the mission.

Look closely at the state of the Enterprise: every mission-critical system except the transporter was working just fine, and the transporter was marginal, with good reason to think it might be working by the time it was needed, and acceptable alternative methods were available if it weren't on hand.

It's embarrassing to have the doors be faulty and the Captain's Log iPad crashing, but none of that's important stuff.

Though the skeleton crew might pose a problem, especially since the Klingons getting involved was a possibility.