Poll "Small Universe Syndrome" - Yay Or Nay?

[fireproof78]

Even though the series didn't stick the landing, Game of Thrones was an excellent example of "After happily ever after" being a compelling setting. They just started too far down the timeline.

Agreed. And I truly think that there is a lot of potential in the Sequel Trilogy itself without falling back in to small universe syndrome with Palpatine as the big bad. But, I don't think the pieces were set up quite effectively enough to take advantage of the "after happily ever after." To your point, the setting wasn't clear enough to engage.

 

[UssGlenn]

Just start it a few years before. Leia is obsessed with stopping the new Republic from falling into the same bad practices that brought down the old (a losing battle), and it's driving her and Han apart. And we get to see the fall of Luke's academy rather than just a few seconds of flashback. And that's the last straw between Han and Leia. End on a downer like Empire.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Agreed. And I truly think that there is a lot of potential in the Sequel Trilogy itself without falling back in to small universe syndrome with Palpatine as the big bad.

Yeah, exactly. And I do think the new characters have merit, but the way they handled them did them a disservice by not letting them have proper backstory of their own. It should have been far more balanced than the way it came out. And anybody new they did have that had potential was killed off far too soon, which is why they had nothing to build on.

 

[cooleddie74]

And Finn was handled so badly after TFA. Poor John Boyega could have been the breakout star of the Sequel Trilogy but nope.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

So you give the basic gist in the movie and put the expanded details in the book.

They explained why Finn wasn’t a Jango clone in one line and it was fine.

My issue with the robot army was more the coughing and the grimacing was so silly I couldn’t take them seriously.

 

[Anwar]

Just start it a few years before. Leia is obsessed with stopping the new Republic from falling into the same bad practices that brought down the old (a losing battle), and it's driving her and Han apart. And we get to see the fall of Luke's academy rather than just a few seconds of flashback. And that's the last straw between Han and Leia. End on a downer like Empire.

Ford wasn't coming back unless they killed Han ASAP, and if this had been the first movie then Fisher would still be dead within a year and not available for future movies.

And Finn was handled so badly after TFA. Poor John Boyega could have been the breakout star of the Sequel Trilogy but nope.

Folks misunderstood his level of importance. The Sequels were about Rey and Ren, not Finn.

 

[fireproof78]

And Finn was handled so badly after TFA. Poor John Boyega could have been the breakout star of the Sequel Trilogy but nope.

Agreed. Honestly, his best scene was him vs. Phasma, and even that had a deleted scene which extended that confrontation in TLJ. Finn could have been a really interesting, dynamic character, even to the point of showing Rey that your background is not your destiny, if they had to keep Palpatine. But, sadly, he was left aside.

 

[Owain Taggart]

And Finn was handled so badly after TFA. Poor John Boyega could have been the breakout star of the Sequel Trilogy but nope.

Yeah, he was, and his defection from the First Order to the rebels should have had more lasting consequences than it had. The way they'd had it felt like barely a a blip. Speaking of Phasma, she's another character that felt severely underused, and I felt bad for the actress, because I remember seeing an interview with her about her role, and she was excited for what was to come for her in what was to be TLJ, saying that she would be getting a bigger role, and uh... well, I guess it's a bigger role if you count being coldly killed off with very few lines.

More than my annoyance at not creating new characters, is creating characters and not giving them anything to do

Folks misunderstood his level of importance. The Sequels were about Rey and Ren, not Finn.

But not rigidly so. The OT had its supporting characters. While the movies were about Luke, Leia and Vader, in essence a family saga, Han, Chewie and Lando all held important roles in the trilogy. You practically can't think of SW without them. Similarly, from TFA on, they were positioning Finn and Poe be similar support roles, part of 'the gang'. But they were underdeveloped and cast aside as mere token roles.

 

[Anwar]

Similarly, from TFA on, they were positioning Finn and Poe be similar support roles, part of 'the gang'. But they were underdeveloped and cast aside as mere token roles.

Well, Poe WAS supposed to stay dead after his opening bit with Finn but they liked Oscar's performance enough to keep him alive. He really was just a throwaway character.

As for Finn, they never gave much thought to him being a Defector who had serious thoughts about what he was doing. He was supposed to have been raised with the other Troops, but he was fine blasting away at them when he helped Poe escape back to Jakku. The writers never considered he'd NOT want to kill people he'd known for his life/years for some stranger. Right from the beginning no thought was given to him being a renegade Stormtrooper.

And look, we even have the Editor of the original movies (well, ANH and ESB) complaining that they never should have killed off Han, Luke and Leia.

That's the problem here, SW never tried harder to show there was more to the Universe than them!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

It's odd to give a character like Finn such a prominent role if he wasn't intended to be of more importance. I suppose the PT did the same with Qui-Gon Jinn though his absence did provide a role with Anakin's care falling to the more inexperienced Obi-Wan who wasn't really up to the task. The ST really suffers from not having the big picture more fully realize throughout, each movie seems to just wing it to its detriment (IMO).

 

[fireproof78]

That's the problem here, SW never tried harder to show there was more to the Universe than them!

It never needed to. Let's be fair, Star Wars was not expected to become this big thing, and the fact that we all sit back and retroactively assess it like it was always meant to be ignores the fact that Lucas, and his team, were winging it all through the OT. Marcia Lucas may feel that they don't get SW, but it also shows the ongoing fundamental thinking of "Star Wars is Han, Luke and Leia." Well, it started out as such but the potential was always for more.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The ST really suffers from not having the big picture more fully realize throughout, each movie seems to just wing it to its detriment (IMO).

Yeah, that's what it boils down to me. For me, it's a trilogy that feels like it never properly got off the ground. I mean, speaking in terms of trilogies, they should have some sort of arc shared among them, and build off what each one introduced. But it never really does that. We should have really known more about the current state of the galaxy by the second movie, and even more by the last, but honestly we ended up learning very little we didn't already know. That just seems like terrible plotting for a 3-part saga.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Sequel Trilogy just careened from entertaining to frustrating to infuriating with all too much frequency. Even with the controversial setup Rian Johnson gave J.J. for Episode IX there were ways to conclude the Saga with far more satisfying and continnuity-spanning results than what we got in that mess of a final film.

 

[fireproof78]

It could have been more but was sufficient for me.

 

[Commander Troi]

Ford wasn't coming back unless they killed Han ASAP, and if this had been the first movie then Fisher would still be dead within a year and not available for future movies.

The 2nd is the benefit of hindsight, the 1st... yeah, as the saying goes, "if wishes were starships."

Yeah, he was, and his defection from the First Order to the rebels should have had more lasting consequences than it had. The way they'd had it felt like barely a a blip. Speaking of Phasma, she's another character that felt severely underused, and I felt bad for the actress, because I remember seeing an interview with her about her role, and she was excited for what was to come for her in what was to be TLJ, saying that she would be getting a bigger role, and uh... well, I guess it's a bigger role if you count being coldly killed off with very few lines.

More than my annoyance at not creating new characters, is creating characters and not giving them anything to do

But not rigidly so. The OT had its supporting characters. While the movies were about Luke, Leia and Vader, in essence a family saga, Han, Chewie and Lando all held important roles in the trilogy. You practically can't think of SW without them. Similarly, from TFA on, they were positioning Finn and Poe be similar support roles, part of 'the gang'. But they were underdeveloped and cast aside as mere token roles.

I felt bad for Gwendoline too, especially knowing what she's capable of from GoT! And they set up something nice with Finn and Rose, but then didn't do much with it. Grr.

It's funny, when I think of OT, I think of Luke, Leia, and Han as the main characters. They're the heroes. Everyone else is there to support their journeys. But that could just be me.

 

[fireproof78]

It's funny, when I think of OT, I think of Luke, Leia, and Han as the main characters. They're the heroes. Everyone else is there to support their journeys. But that could just be me.

That is my general attitude as well, which is probably why the ST rubs people the wrong way, and why the PT never worked for me. The chemistry of Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme never quite worked in any way. The ST, by and large, looked to have a new generation take up the mantle, but leaned far more in to familiar tropes, while not involving the OT heroes the way people expected. And, it was to mixed results.

 

[Commander Troi]

That is my general attitude as well, which is probably why the ST rubs people the wrong way, and why the PT never worked for me. The chemistry of Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme never quite worked in any way. The ST, by and large, looked to have a new generation take up the mantle, but leaned far more in to familiar tropes, while not involving the OT heroes the way people expected. And, it was to mixed results.

Which is a shame - I think Rey/Finn/and either Ben or Poe had real potential.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I felt bad for Gwendoline too, especially knowing what she's capable of from GoT! And they set up something nice with Finn and Rose, but then didn't do much with it. Grr.

I know, right? I really feel that with the ST, they didn't do character very well. It's not just that they're underused, but that they're underdeveloped. They had set up Phasma as this interesting character that had potential for more, and they could have kept using her throughout the trilogy as she did feel like an important imperial character, but instead it was wasted talent. I also liked Rose and found her to be an interesting character that at least gave Finn more to do, but again, it wasn't something they followed up on.

The chemistry of Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme never quite worked in any way.

For me, one major thing that raised my eyebrows was the age difference between Padme and Anakin's actors. It made me feel uncomfortable, and it also made the whole thing feel rather forced. I mean, she's a princess looking towards a boy who's not even hit puberty yet. So awkward! And we're supposed to believe they'll become a romantic couple. Casting was all wrong on that one. The idea in general is sound, but what they should have done is have an actress closer to his age in the first movie, and change to the older actors in the second movie like they did with Anakin. That was a huge misstep in my eyes.

 

[Commander Troi]

For me, one major thing that raised my eyebrows was the age difference between Padme and Anakin's actors. It made me feel uncomfortable, and it also made the whole thing feel rather forced. I mean, she's a princess looking towards a boy who's not even hit puberty yet. So awkward! And we're supposed to believe they'll become a romantic couple. Casting was all wrong on that one. The idea in general is sound, but what they should have done is have an actress closer to his age in the first movie, and change to the older actors in the second movie like they did with Anakin. That was a huge misstep in my eyes.

Oh hells yes! If it had been a teen guy looking at a pre-teen girl that way...

Then, in AotC, Natalie and Hayden have ZERO chemistry. And don't even get me started on the whole "I'm wearing a bustier while telling you to go away"!

 

[Owain Taggart]

^ That too! And the other thing is, by the second movie, they both look about the same age range. So, wait, do they somehow age faster in a galaxy far far away?? It makes the first movie even weirder. SW logic is weird!