Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[trevanian]

The new M remains to be seen what he brings to the table.. he's handy in a fight being an ex SAS man and is willing to break the rules if the results are worth it.

Which is odd considering what happened here: Bond's plan did NOT work! Sure they killed and stopped Silva from his evil plans or whatever he had planed to do next. (I think the NOC List thread was taken care of and no longer an issue.) But Silva still succeeded in his end goal: To kill M!

If Bond had NOT kidnapped M, sure, Silva may never have been captured which would have lead to M's disgrace in leaving MI6, but she'd be alive. In the end, kidnapping M helped Silva to get his goal: to kill her.

So Bond failed in this task of protecting M. But won in stopping Silva. Sort of a push, but it's an odd "win" for sure.

As I said upthred, it wasn't abou protectng M, it was aout protecting everyone else.Number of innocent civilians killed by Slva after Bond kidnaps M? Zero.

No, it's just idiot plotting, arbitrary as hell. The people put at risk if they'd had SAS tucked away in Scotland wouldn't be innocent civilians, they'd be professionals and 'risk is our business' isn't it? Going the HIGH NOON route puts SKYFALL squarely in the OUTLAND territory of retreading a classic but doing so out of context, which invalidates the whole thing (but at least OUTLAND had Sean Connery!)

Bond (if you even consider this character in the 21st century films to even be Bond) has failed in two out of three movies -- oddly enough, the ones that most people, not me, fawn all over. Quantum got away with the money in CR, and he failed to save M -- thank God! -- in this one.

Even the 'old school' bare bones notion of action doesn't hold water, because they're still using a gadgeted-up Aston Martin (trotted in from another continuum!) and using it badly, since it should have been parked FACING the badguys, which would have taken them out before they got close.

So arbitrary it is like Lucas wrote it.

 

[stj]

^Trying to channel Guy Gardner?

There's bizarre sexual innuendo in my post?

Very creative of me!

 

[Starkers]

Which is odd considering what happened here: Bond's plan did NOT work! Sure they killed and stopped Silva from his evil plans or whatever he had planed to do next. (I think the NOC List thread was taken care of and no longer an issue.) But Silva still succeeded in his end goal: To kill M!

If Bond had NOT kidnapped M, sure, Silva may never have been captured which would have lead to M's disgrace in leaving MI6, but she'd be alive. In the end, kidnapping M helped Silva to get his goal: to kill her.

So Bond failed in this task of protecting M. But won in stopping Silva. Sort of a push, but it's an odd "win" for sure.

As I said upthred, it wasn't abou protectng M, it was aout protecting everyone else.Number of innocent civilians killed by Slva after Bond kidnaps M? Zero.

No, it's just idiot plotting, arbitrary as hell. The people put at risk if they'd had SAS tucked away in Scotland wouldn't be innocent civilians, they'd be professionals and 'risk is our business' isn't it? Going the HIGH NOON route puts SKYFALL squarely in the OUTLAND territory of retreading a classic but doing so out of context, which invalidates the whole thing (but at least OUTLAND had Sean Connery!)

Bond (if you even consider this character in the 21st century films to even be Bond) has failed in two out of three movies -- oddly enough, the ones that most people, not me, fawn all over. Quantum got away with the money in CR, and he failed to save M -- thank God! -- in this one.

Even the 'old school' bare bones notion of action doesn't hold water, because they're still using a gadgeted-up Aston Martin (trotted in from another continuum!) and using it badly, since it should have been parked FACING the badguys, which would have taken them out before they got close.

So arbitrary it is like Lucas wrote it.

What a great idea, point the car with the fixed guns away from the house! That’ll do some good against Silva’s goons stretched out in a big long skirmish line, much cleverer than facing those fixed guns towards the front door that most of the goons were going to have to congregate in front of in a big, easy to hit bundle…

 

[The Wormhole]

[Her man is dead (must've happened sometime in between the movies because i do recall a man in her house in Casino Royale when Bond calls her private number)

I thought that scene was in Quantum of Solace?

CR. Bond's in Bermuda and accessing the MI6 network to check on the associates of Dmitrios, include Le Chiffre. IT calls M, wakes her, and tells her Bond's accessing the network using her username and password. She says, "How the devil does he know these things?" A man is sleeping next to her.

Sound familiar now?

Kind of, but for some reason I was sure it was in QoS. I really should watch these movies more often.

 

[ATimson]

Kind of, but for some reason I was sure it was in QoS. I really should watch these movies more often.

In QoS he actually breaks into her house, I believe.

 

[Starkers]

No that's Casino Royale as well

 

[Ghost Bones]

Feminists wiil always complain about something.

Yeah, especially the washing up! Eheh lads, am I right?

 

[Ian Keldon]

I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of legitimate points of view on TBBS.

Good to know. Thanks.

I wasn't aware that you get shirty when someone points out the absurdity of your opinion.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[inflatabledalek]

M's husband puts a call through for her whilst she's ruining a bath in QoS as well.

Well, that's the assumption anyway. Mr. M might have died years before CR and she's now just a casual sex maniac.

Agreed with the notion that M goes along with Bond's plan not because it's the sensible thing to do, but because sorting out her own shit is the right thing to do. I had problems with a lot of the film's plotting (including that everyone who went along with it keeping their jobs) but that choice made sense for both her and Bond.

Q probably should have been also sacked for plugging a computer genius' drive into his mainframe without expecting bad stuff to happen.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I just saw "Skyfall" a few days back, and I thought it was an awesome picture. I look to go again once I have the time....(and maybe see it in IMAX).

Daniel Craig is my favorite Bond...

 

[T'Baio]

I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of legitimate points of view on TBBS.

Good to know. Thanks.

I wasn't aware that you get shirty when someone points out the absurdity of your opinion.

Good to know. Thanks.

What's "shirty" mean?

 

[trevanian]

As I said upthred, it wasn't abou protectng M, it was aout protecting everyone else.Number of innocent civilians killed by Slva after Bond kidnaps M? Zero.

No, it's just idiot plotting, arbitrary as hell. The people put at risk if they'd had SAS tucked away in Scotland wouldn't be innocent civilians, they'd be professionals and 'risk is our business' isn't it? Going the HIGH NOON route puts SKYFALL squarely in the OUTLAND territory of retreading a classic but doing so out of context, which invalidates the whole thing (but at least OUTLAND had Sean Connery!)

Bond (if you even consider this character in the 21st century films to even be Bond) has failed in two out of three movies -- oddly enough, the ones that most people, not me, fawn all over. Quantum got away with the money in CR, and he failed to save M -- thank God! -- in this one.

Even the 'old school' bare bones notion of action doesn't hold water, because they're still using a gadgeted-up Aston Martin (trotted in from another continuum!) and using it badly, since it should have been parked FACING the badguys, which would have taken them out before they got close.

So arbitrary it is like Lucas wrote it.

What a great idea, point the car with the fixed guns away from the house! That’ll do some good against Silva’s goons stretched out in a big long skirmish line, much cleverer than facing those fixed guns towards the front door that most of the goons were going to have to congregate in front of in a big, easy to hit bundle…

They have to come past, you can start the car and pivot, you're also getting them BEFORE they get near the place, thinning the numbers that much more, AND you can drive away as they go for cover, assuming you don't get them all, but ... y'know what? this is like the old days trying to talk sense to ENTERPRISE fans. If you can't see that every bit of 'strategy' in this is horseshit, then revel in your POV.

 

[Brikar99]

They have to come past, you can start the car and pivot, you're also getting them BEFORE they get near the place, thinning the numbers that much more, AND you can drive away as they go for cover, assuming you don't get them all, but ... y'know what? this is like the old days trying to talk sense to ENTERPRISE fans. If you can't see that every bit of 'strategy' in this is horseshit, then revel in your POV.

And losing every element of surprise that Bond desperately needs to overcome a larger, more heavily armed force. Driving the car around a field in Scotland trying to run down mercenaries is absurdly stupid... dare I say, "horseshit."

 

[Starkers]

Yeah, the DB5's guns are great for what they're designed to do, i.e. engage other vehicles in combat or hit a static target, against a bunch of men they're useless unless you can bunch those men up to make a big target. The notion that you could start the car up and "pivot" is daft, it's not some kind of hover car, it's a 1960's sports car, which just adds to the ludicrousness of the idea of haring around the countryside trying to take out a bunch of armed men.

The car won’t move great over that ground, it's not a 4x4, it's used to roads not uneven/icy ground, in fact it might not move at all, and even if it does it’s going to move slowly, so what you have is a slow moving big target, vs. lots of more manoeuvrable smaller targets with automatic weapons.

 

[lurok]

Maybe they're getting it mixed up with the Batman Returns batmobile?

 

[Starkers]

Now if 007 had had that it'd have been worth taking the fight to the bad guys!

 

[DimesDan]

"People who perpetually hunt for witches to burn inevitably find them..." as the saying goes.

Arn't you the same chap who created a thread a while back comparing the fictional Empire from Star Wars with the not at all fictional Third Reich and thus anyone who likes said Empire being a sympathiser with said non-fictional regime?

Pot, Kettle, Black anyone?

 

[Gaith]

^ Perhaps we can all agree that, while opinions may vary on the wisdom of the car placement, Q was mind-bogglingly irresponsible by not isolating his computer before accessing Silva's?

... And I'm still wondering how he got out of his cell, seeing as he was being watched by two armed guards at a safe distance. Maybe his virus deactivated the guards' nervous systems?

And M should never have let anyone on 00 duty who couldn't reliably hit a stationary target at his leisure in a shooting-range setting.

This wasn't "James Bond Takes on the Slave Trade," you know.

And now I find myself wishing that it was. Given his promiscuity, Bond vs. sex-trade criminals could be a genuinely interesting concept. But his sexing up the girl did strike me as pretty ick also, given the context. And the plot we did get I just didn't find at all compelling.

I wanted and expected to like the movie, but lame drama Q's stupidity and the flashlight drove me up the wall. I give this a C-, worse than QoS's C+ for the weakest Craig entry yet. Skyfail, indeed.

 

[Starkers]

^ Perhaps we can all agree that, while opinions may vary on the wisdom of the car placement, Q was mind-bogglingly irresponsible by not isolating his computer before accessing Silva's?

Oh no question

 

[lurok]

...Bond vs. sex-trade criminals could be a genuinely interesting concept.

Perhaps they can remake Enter The Dragon for the next one?