Skillet (Christian rock band)

[Moviefan2k4]

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words. My relationship with God has been a weird one over the years. I was born into a moderately Catholic home (Church every Sunday, youth group, high holy days, etc), but we didn't have photos of the Pope or crosses hanging in the house. My first wife was Christian, but did not care to convert to Catholicism, which was ok by me. But after a time, I just stopped going to church. My now-grown kids aren't overly religious either. My current wife is an atheist, but we respect each other's beliefs. Her also-atheist son tried to challenge me a bit on my beliefs, but I never took the bait.

I lived for a short time with a woman who I truly loved, but when it came to spiritual matters we disagreed...and it quickly drove us apart. The breakup was very painful for me, and to this day there's certain love songs that I can't hear without being reminded of her. So I think I understand a little bit, what you must be dealing with in a union where your spouse doesn't share your worldview.

As for being challenged, that's very tricky. Some people are open to a rational, thoughtful, and patient debate. But in truth, many are not - they just hate believers and want to hear the sound of their own voice. I don't waste my time with people like that.

 

[fireproof78]

But I also don’t tell people to be perfect.

Thankfully, I don't hang with Christians who do anymore.

Now, Trek fans...

 

[marillion]

I lived for a short time with a woman who I truly loved, but when it came to spiritual matters we disagreed...and it quickly drove us apart. The breakup was very painful for me, and to this day there's certain love songs that I can't hear without being reminded of her. So I think I understand a little bit, what you must be dealing with in a union where your spouse doesn't share your worldview.

As for being challenged, that's very tricky. Some people are open to a rational, thoughtful, and patient debate. But in truth, many are not - they just hate believers and want to hear the sound of their own voice. I don't waste my time with people like that.

Well, he's my step-son, so I don't have much of a choice. LOL. But you're pretty spot on about him loving to hear his own voice. He was a snarky college student at the time who thought he knew everything and enjoyed being the smartest person in the room. Now he's getting his PhD in bio chemistry and has mellowed quite a bit. While my wife and I don't agree about God, we pretty much share similar views on most other things and share mutual activities and interests. So it balances out, at least for us.

On topic... I forgot about Jars of Clay. Not a hard rock band, but they had some really catchy stuff back in the 90s that crossed over to contemporary top 40.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Well, he's my step-son, so I don't have much of a choice. LOL. But you're pretty spot on about him loving to hear his own voice. He was a snarky college student at the time who thought he knew everything and enjoyed being the smartest person in the room. Now he's getting his PhD in bio chemistry and has mellowed quite a bit. While my wife and I don't agree about God, we pretty much share similar views on most other things and share mutual activities and interests. So it balances out, at least for us.

I'm glad your marriage is balanced in other ways. Regarding your son, it seems most kids have at least some attitude issues with their parents, whether its about spiritual matters or another subject entirely. I know I certainly did for a long time, especially with my mother.

On topic... I forgot about Jars of Clay. Not a hard rock band, but they had some really catchy stuff back in the 90s that crossed over to contemporary top 40.

Like Stryper, I honestly didn't listen to them much. I got some of the band names for this thread from an Internet search, because I was either too young when certain acts first got started, or I wasn't very aware of them growing up.

 

[marillion]

I didn't care much for Stryper either, but, much like Skillit, I just don't care for the sound.

 

[fireproof78]

On topic... I forgot about Jars of Clay. Not a hard rock band, but they had some really catchy stuff back in the 90s that crossed over to contemporary top 40.

Jars is a great band, another personal favorite and one that my eventual wife bonded over.

Also, I thoroughly enjoy Disciple, and I still remember "Pitiful" by Blindside and the music video as if it was yesterday:

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I didn't care much for Stryper either, but, much like Skillet, I just don't care for the sound.

I'm sorry to hear that, since I personally think they're one of the best in the gospel music industry. A lot of the '80s acts like Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith remain popular with older audiences, but it seems the current generation (which largely has an attention span of about 5 seconds) doesn't pay much attention anymore.

In the above interview I posted, John says that while Skillet was first formed in 1996, they didn't get their first radio hit until 2009. He openly admitted he was tempted to give up at different times, but kept going because he loved performing music, and he implied that he still believed it was in God's plan for him. And they're definitely doing something right now, having a total of 17 million album sales and 33 million global streams from their last release alone. God has definitely blessed them, in my opinion.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

OK, I know what some of you may already be thinking, based on this thread's title alone. "A Christian rock band? That's ridiculous; Christians can't make good music."

Ridiculous. Stryper sure rocked!

 

[Relayer1]

If you're at all interested in prog rock, try this -

 

[Unicron]

As for the idea of Christian rock bands: Even though I’m an atheist I don’t actually mind listening to musicians or songs with religious undertones. Themes about belief can make for interesting song lyrics (the late great George Michael bemoaning a God who has seemingly abandoned his human children in his classic song “Praying for Time” comes to mind as an example). That said, I personally do consider it a bit weird to built your entire musical identity around your Christian belief. It’s obviously their prerogative, but I’m just a bit put off by it, if I’m to be honest.

Indeed. As a former Christian who didn't enjoy actually singing in church (our family musical gene bypassed me ), I do enjoy some aspects of traditional Christian and spiritual music. I'm not entirely sure why anyone would argue that Christians can't make good music, regardless of any religious opinions.

I've been a fan of Enigma for some years, and all of his albums are interesting in their own way. One of his cool tracks is this one, which also incorporates the five notes from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, of which he's a fan.

I've also heard some cool tracks over the years related to specific historical periods, like this one that was done for the movie Cold Mountain (set during the American civil war of the 1860s).

And we have an album of colonial style Christmas music, which has some nice songs. It's a fun difference from more modern forms.

 

[fireproof78]

ndeed. As a former Christian who didn't enjoy actually singing in church (our family musical gene bypassed me ), I do enjoy some aspects of traditional Christian and spiritual music. I'm not entirely sure why anyone would argue that Christians can't make good music, regardless of any religious opinions.

That use to be the opinion through 80s and 90s when I was growing up, and that Christian music was garbage, and for people who don't like "real music."

But, then, I have extremely eclectic musical tastes so...

 

[Unicron]

It's probably fair to say my tastes are rather eclectic too.

 

[Avro Arrow]

The sometimes hard-to-accept fact of the matter is that unlike many other worldviews, Christianity is founded on the concept of absolute truth

With respect, the thought that your own religion is based on "absolute truth", while others are not, is not an objective assessment. Members of other religions are just as sure about the truth of their beliefs as you are of yours. That does not make one set beliefs objective truths, and the others objective falsehoods.

Sadly, there's a few bad apples, and more opinionated non-believers often use them as an excuse to hurl venomous insults and baseless accusations.

This is, what, the third or fourth time you've posted about hateful non-believers treating Christians badly for no good reason?

I know you don't really know me. I've posted my approach to Star Trek elsewhere on this board, and it's basically the same as my approach to life: people should do what makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt others. If you've found something to believe in that brings you joy, that's great! I'm happy for you, truly.

But a key part is "and doesn't hurt others". There are some (by no means all!) people who use their religious beliefs as a cudgel to hurt others. Those articles that @Michael linked to? The sentiments that Mr. Cooper expressed in them hurt others. Is he one of those "bad apples" you referenced? (You brushed this off as him being "misinterpreted", but his statements seemed pretty clear.)

The thing is, there is a lot of people who share those same beliefs as Mr. Cooper, or other similar beliefs. Again, by no means all... I have no desire to try to paint every religious person with the same brush. But some do exist. When some use their religion as a weapon against others again and again and again, it is a natural reaction that those others are then going to become distrustful of that weapon that has been wielded against them.

So it strikes me as disingenuous to claim that religious people are getting "baseless" accusations hurled at them. They are getting those accusations because their very religion was used as the basis for the attacks that the people levelling the accusations have endured. Is it right that religious people that aren't hurting people (and there are many) get smeared with the same thing? No, probably not. But these things aren't just coming randomly out of left field because some people were looking for a group to rail against and thought, "hey, why not Christians?".

Apologies for going a little off-topic, but I was just responding to what was posted. I've seen a similar thing posted a few times over the last few days, without challenge, and felt it needed to be addressed.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

With respect, the thought that your own religion is based on "absolute truth", while others are not, is not an objective assessment. Members of other religions are just as sure about the truth of their beliefs as you are of yours. That does not make one set beliefs objective truths, and the others objective falsehoods.

With due respect (and I truly do, because you're a mod), I'll have to disagree. The very concept of anything being true in this world is that in the end, it must by definition apply to everyone, whether any of us like it or not. As a Christian, I believe that God's divine nature is that standard. I know others don't feel that way, and that is their right...but if they have the freedom to try and convince me of their worldview, then I should also have the same opportunity.

This is, what, the third or fourth time you've posted about hateful non-believers treating Christians badly for no good reason?

I post about it because I've seen it happen, many times. My comments aren't specifically aimed at anyone on this forum; most of the users I've encountered so far have been very nice, and I appreciate that. But there are many people in the world, who I sometimes describe as "anti-theists". Unlike standard atheists or humanists, who are mostly content to leave spirituality alone and remain peaceful with others, anti-theists are the types who are very easily offended by supernatural claims, especially Christian ones. And instead of calmly debating the subject, they resort to calling names or hurling personal attacks.

I know you don't really know me. I've posted my approach to Star Trek elsewhere on this board, and it's basically the same as my approach to life: people should do what makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt others. If you've found something to believe in that brings you joy, that's great! I'm happy for you, truly.

But a key part is "and doesn't hurt others". There are some (by no means all!) people who use their religious beliefs as a cudgel to hurt others. Those articles that @Michael linked to? The sentiments that Mr. Cooper expressed in them hurt others. Is he one of those "bad apples" you referenced? (You brushed this off as him being "misinterpreted", but his statements seemed pretty clear.)

Well, I'll have to (again, respectfully) disagree with you about John. I'll admit I didn't read the entirety of those articles Michael linked to, but I did get the gist that he was not directly comparing anyone to a terrorist or dictator. He was merely describing how some people can easily fool themselves into thinking they're doing good, when the reverse is actually true. He used Hitler as one example of a person who was self-delusioned, and then addressed a problem he saw about others who follow such misguided leaders.

The thing is, there is a lot of people who share those same beliefs as Mr. Cooper, or other similar beliefs. Again, by no means all... I have no desire to try to paint every religious person with the same brush. But some do exist. When some use their religion as a weapon against others again and again and again, it is a natural reaction that those others are then going to become distrustful of that weapon that has been wielded against them.

I get that, honestly. But if non-believers are going to insist that Christians be more gentle and objective, I think its only fair they show us the same courtesy.

So it strikes me as disingenuous to claim that religious people are getting "baseless" accusations hurled at them. They are getting those accusations because their very religion was used as the basis for the attacks that the people levelling the accusations have endured. Is it right that religious people that aren't hurting people (and there are many) get smeared with the same thing? No, probably not. But these things aren't just coming randomly out of left field because some people were looking for a group to rail against and thought, "hey, why not Christians?"

Religious hatred is part of living in a broken world...and yes, some of it has sadly come from people who have called themselves followers of Christ. But the easiest way to tell the difference between real believers and false ones is to pay attention to their actions. Don't just dismiss somebody on a whim, because they may have said something you disagree with. Their overall behavior is a clearer sign of their heart's condition, not just what they say. We're all fallible, and sometimes, even the most well-intentioned people can be thoughtless with their speech. I know I've definitely struggled with that, at different times..

Apologies for going a little off-topic, but I was just responding to what was posted. I've seen a similar thing posted a few times over the last few days, without challenge, and felt it needed to be addressed.

No worries; you're just doing your job as a mod. I'm not bothered or offended in the slightest.

 

[Michael]

With due respect (and I truly do, because you're a mod)

No worries; you're just doing your job as a mod.

I’ll let @Avro Arrow speak for themself, but let me just address this, since this misconception comes up fairly often and it’s probably not obvious for someone who hasn’t been here all that long: @Avro Arrow is actually not really doing their job as a mod here, because they are not modding the “TV & Media” subforum. When we post here or any other place on the board that we are not assigned to as moderators we are doing so as regular posters, not in our capacity as mods. We are just participating in the discussion like everyone else. And like everyone else we have to adhere to the board rules. If we break a rule, another mod or admin might be forced to hand out a warning. You can’t forget that many of us had been regular posters long before we were ever asked to fill a moderator position. So I would request that you treat everyone you interact with here with the same kind of respect; no extra respect necessary just because you’re dealing with a mod. Thank you!

 

[Avro Arrow]

With due respect (and I truly do, because you're a mod)

No worries; you're just doing your job as a mod.

I know you're new here, so I should probably clear this up right away. I am on staff, yes, but moderators are assigned to specific forums. You can see the specific mods for a forum up at the top of the forum, before all the posts start. The mod for this particular forum is @cultcross . In this forum, I am just another poster, and my word carries no "official" weight whatsoever.

I am just engaging with you here as another poster because the topic interested me. TBH, I try (not always successfully, mind you) to stay out of these type of discussions in my own forums, because I get concerned about a perception of bias if I have to perform moderation duties in a "controversial" topic that I have been on a particular side in.

The very concept of anything being true in this world is that in the end, it must by definition apply to everyone, whether any of us like it or not. As a Christian, I believe that God's divine nature is that standard.

Sure, you believe that's the standard. And I respect your belief. But I was just pointing out that just because you believe it, doesn't make it an objective truth. It, by definition, cannot be proven, and requires faith, and is therefore subjective.

but if they have the freedom to try and convince me of their worldview, then I should also have the same opportunity.

I think I touched on this in the other thread, but... I am not going to try to convince you of my worldview. I respect that you have your own views that are different from mine; I have no particular desire to try to have you disavow your faith. By the same token, I would also appreciate not having your worldview imposed upon my life.

Unlike standard atheists or humanists, who are mostly content to leave spirituality alone and remain peaceful with others, anti-theists are the types who are very easily offended by supernatural claims, especially Christian ones. And instead of calmly debating the subject, they resort to calling names or hurling personal attacks.

I'm a firm believer that a certain percentage of any given group are going to be jerks. I just try not to fall into that percentage in any groups I may belong to. Are there going to be unpleasant atheists? Sure. There's going to be unpleasant people everywhere.

Sometimes, though, as mentioned previously, some people are going to have a problem with religion because of what people have done to them in the past in the name of that religion.

I get that, honestly. But if non-believers are going to insist that Christians be more gentle and objective, I think its only fair they show us the same courtesy.

I'm certainly all in favour of more courtesy in the world.

But the easiest way to tell the difference between real believers and false ones is to pay attention to their actions. Don't just dismiss somebody on a whim, because they may have said something you disagree with. Their overall behavior is a clearer sign of their heart's condition, not just what they say. We're all fallible, and sometimes, even the most well-intentioned people can be thoughtless with their speech. I know I've definitely struggled with that, at different times..

Fair enough. In general, it's not good to prejudge anyone. But I also believe in the old adage, "when someone shows you who they really are, believe them". And if someone's actions do hurt others, even if they claim it's because of their religion, or God's will, or whatever, well, then those actions speak for them.

I'm not bothered or offended in the slightest.

Thank you, I appreciate that. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Michael]

^ Ninja’d. Sorry about that.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I’ll let @Avro Arrow speak for themself, but let me just address this, since this misconception comes up fairly often and it’s probably not obvious for someone who hasn’t been here all that long: @Avro Arrow is actually not really doing their job as a mod here, because they are not modding the “TV & Media” subforum. When we post here or any other place on the board that we are not assigned to as moderators we are doing so as regular posters, not in our capacity as mods. We are just participating in the discussion like everyone else. And like everyone else we have to adhere to the board rules. If we break a rule, another mod or admin might be forced to hand out a warning. You can’t forget that many of us had been regular posters long before we were ever asked to fill a moderator position. So I would request that you treat everyone you interact with here with the same kind of respect; no extra respect necessary just because you’re dealing with a mod. Thank you!

Haha, great minds, and all! You ninja'd me by 2 minutes!

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Well, after more than a page of debating Christian doctrine, how about a few more Skillet videos, since that is the original reason I created this thread in the first place? Here's some other songs from them, that I really enjoy...

 

[fireproof78]

Comatose is one of my favorite albums. This is a good track: