Size of Malon and Hirogen territory

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by JirinPanthosa, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Malon and the Hirogen are two races we see (Other than the Borg) both before and after one of Voyager's long jumps, in this case the 20,000 ly jump in Dark Frontier.

    Is there an in-story reason for why their influence seems to span such a huge amount of space or is it just one more thing to chalk up to lazy writers, who just casually threw in a 20,000 ly jump to make the episode seem more important without actually wanting to design new aliens?
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is their space necessarily contiguous? Could they have colonies strewn throughout the quadrant?
     
  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's certainly possible, but there's two options for that. 1. They have a way to travel that far very quickly, in which case Voyager should have been interested in making deals for it. 2. Their culture fragmented a long time ago and there is no communication between colonies. In which case, we should have seen two very different Malon and Hirogen cultures. Not two who are identically garbage disposers or hunters.

    Also I'm watching Juggernaut and he explicitly references Malon Prime as his place of residence.
     
  4. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    The Malon had ways of using shortcuts as we saw in their first appearance. Probably had more than one.

    No idea how the same Hirogen from Season 4 ended up in Season 7 over 20,000 light years from their last appearance.
     
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  5. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    YMMV.

    During the age of sail, the British were able to maintain rule over places that were 6-12 months away in terms of supply and communication. The key was not to wait to send out ships, but to keep a constant flow of ships and maintain well trained and loyal administrators on the ground who could capably respond to emergencies.

    Of course, they also learned a valuable lesson from their American venture: defer to your colonists, don't exploit them.
     
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  6. darrenjl

    darrenjl Ensign Red Shirt

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    It was lazy writing but not implausible. They may have found a way of using the Vaadwaur corridors undetected or having thousands of years worth of exploration under their belt know the Delta Quadrant and its shortcuts. Maybe the species live far far longer than humans, so their perception of journeying long distances is not seen as an issue.

    After all, how on earth did a colony of Talaxians get so far away from Talax? Imagine the look on Janeway's face if one of them had told the Voyager crew there was a wormhole right next door to Talax that got them there...
     
  7. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    If the Borg so easily assimilate other cultures and they travel to the Alpha Quadrant so quickly and in a few weeks nearly destroyed the Federation, it seems almost impossible that most of the planets near their "home space" would not already be assimilated. That always struck me as lazy writing.

    You would think all of the powerful empires/federations, etc in the area would concentrate on trying to defeat the Borg. The Federation can defeat this super powerful enemy at will and they have only known about them for a few years.
     
  8. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    Once we saw the full extent of the Borg armada in Voyager it never made sense to me why they sent a single cube to Earth. Send a hundred and take the whole quadrant. Easier than going back in time surely.
     
  9. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly, if they were so many of them and they are completely tireless, why wouldn't they just be super methodical and assimilate the entire delta quadrant, especially since no one can stand up to them?
     
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  10. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Seriously? Out of all the examples mentioned, I find this the most less problematic. It took these Talaxians decades to reach that asteroid. Voyager made it in seven years. At least they didn't have someone who Neelix had known....
     
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  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    One of the things that sets the Delta Quadrant apart from the others is that there is no vast unified empire. The Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant has a lot species' knowledge and resources to draw on, even though it's more through subjugation rather than cooperation.

    Alpha Quadrant has the Federation, with hundreds of planets, resources, and species to draw on for solutions and possible counter attacks. Having a larger and more varied viewpoint network of smart people is far more likely to create resistance to the Borg than any single empire of the same species and views, no matter how large that empire might be.


    As far as the Malon and Hirogen are concerned...

    The Hirogen did have that vast satellite network, so they could have given the holographic tech info delivered throughout it. (We don't know if they were able to repair it later or not. It is at least possible... plus, they could have had an alternate source of the same.)

    The Malon, though, is harder to explain. Their first appearance, that wormhole takes them about 2,500 lights years into the void. When they appear again in "EXTREME RISK", it seems like that is their space.

    "JUGGERNAUT" is where the problem lies. The only way it can make sense is if the events of that episode take place before "TIMELESS"... and definitely before "DARK FRONTIER".
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  12. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    The region in which the Voyager found itself within, in 2371 wouldn't have been that different from our part of the galaxy prior to the Trabe's fall.

    Beyond the Nekrit Expanse, it wasn't really that different from back home. There were bunch of significant powers but the Voyager kept going on so we never really had a chance to truly gauge the political landscapes of said regions...
     
  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    We only have what we saw on screen to go by, which is why I said this.
     
  14. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Juggernaut, imo, is a continuity error(even though a decent B'elanna story). I just pretend it's before Dark Frontier in my mind. It's probably a BTS thing why it ended up after. I don't think it really needs to be before Timeless, though.

    The Hirogen have no territory. They spend their whole lives travelling. The Voyager crew were pretty shocked when they learned how far that one disabled Hirogen ship had travelled in one of the earlier episodes, so it would make sense to be able to come across Hirogen essentially anywhere. They also use that vast communication network that spans the Galaxy.

    A continuity error like that need not be chalked up to "lazy writing" though. Juggernaut aired so soon after Dark Frontier that it could have been a planned episode that couldn't be filmed first for any number of reasons, but still had to be filmed... for any number of reasons. It's not like DS9, where they are on a station, and scripts can be much more easily adapted to fit into continuity, even if they end up having to be filmed out of order. It's also not like a more modern serialized show, where there are less than half the episodes to be filmed, and there is at least a general outline of each episode prior to filming the first one.

    Voyager has to do 26 episodes. Every episode is a complete story. The writers on these Star Trek shows were all crazy workaholics, always looking for new ideas, taking in lots of spec scripts. It's pretty insane what they were able to accomplish(on all 4 series of that era)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    I still lean toward it belonging before "TIMELESS", since at the end they got 10 years closer to hone. That's at least 10,000 light years. Federation space isn't even that large, and even Weyoun comments that their space is vast. So I seriously doubt Malon space is that large.
     
  16. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It’s possible the Malon just know all those shortcuts, but then why didn’t Voyager bargain for that knowledge?
     
  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hopefully Voyager took a second shot at offering the Malon their toxic waste recycling program at the end of Juggernaut.
     
  18. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Bargain what? Voyager had absolutely nothing to offer that wouldn't radically change the economy in which the Malons live by...
     
  19. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

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    the borg didn't want to assimilate them all. Kick them in the teeth every once and a while and it encourages new tech to be made that can then be assimilated
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  20. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Do you know how many stars and planets there are in our galaxy and thus within a quadrant of it?

    A federation with hundreds of advanced planets is just a drop in the bucket of the Alpha Quadrant.